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Post by fallenwizard on Aug 3, 2011 12:59:57 GMT
I think it would be nice if, since we hve an edit that allows GMW to work on slings for a slinger, it had some effect. Ideas: 1) Extra attack like lvl 50 SD or CoT if you have LSF 2) Ab above +20 buff cap? +1 for each foci to max of +4? 3) Acts as keen? 4) Adds self-only phys damage like wetstone? (intrudes on fighter niche) 5)  Extra attacks IMO should be 100% out of the question. Slinger alrdy gets highest amount of bonus attacks in game, resulting terrible ab as it is, another extra attack would be "roll a 20 to hit with it"-attack Say a slinger has 95 ab. main attacks goes 95/90/85 bonus attacks from haste (1), divine power getting pre epic BAB on fighter level (2) divine power lvl 45, 55 (3-4), rapid shot (5), this possible extra attack (6) So ab for extra attacks 95/90/85/80/75/70 -2 from rapid shot so that 6th extra attack made at 68 ab! Personaly I wouldnt even bother with rapid shot on a slinger, -20 ab from alrdy lowish ab is not worth it on my book to lower all other attack's ab by 2. Also, Funky, are you sure that gmw on sling doesnt stack with phys damage on bullet? I can see why if it doesnt, but also could see possibility of it stacking as it basicly is from different source. GMW could also give slings "extra ranged damage: piercing/slashing" As for stacking AB bonus Shard mentioned, Spell pedestal could give slinger's "enchantment bullet" feats 1 per focus, same feat that AA gets but modded for slings. This +4 AB would be most welcome, still 1 ab behind tier 1 classes with same ability modifier. |
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Post by gandoron on Aug 3, 2011 13:42:53 GMT
So ab for extra attacks 95/90/85/80/75/70 -2 from rapid shot so that 6th extra attack made at 68 ab! Fallen, your mistaken about the progression. Bonus attacks are actually in a separate bucket that start off at the highest possible ab, then go down by -5 (even with monk progression), so the 3 existing bonus attacks would be a 0/-5/-10, a 4th additional attack would be at -20, giving you 95/90/85/95/90/85/80. My dual wield CoT has the following: CoT: Dual Katana + div wrath Standard Prim and Off attacks are -4, Prim bonus attacks are standard ab with 5 iteration 4 95 Prim Standard -4 9 90 Prim Standard -4 14 85 Prim Standard -4 19 80 Prim Standard -4 0 99 Prim Bonus 5 94 Prim Bonus 4 95 Off -4 9 90 Off -4 In many builds, the very highest attack is the first bonus attack. I believe that bonus attacks will continue past -15/-20/-25, but there are very few builds that can test this. I believe only a HS/AA, which I haven't been able to test with yet. -G |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 3, 2011 14:18:42 GMT
Also, Funky, are you sure that gmw on sling doesnt stack with phys damage on bullet? I can see why if it doesnt, but also could see possibility of it stacking as it basicly is from different source. No, not at all. I just like to make things up. I'm sure that's what Were was doing too, when he noted his skepticism and tested it.  Funky |
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Post by fallenwizard on Aug 3, 2011 15:01:09 GMT
So ab for extra attacks 95/90/85/80/75/70 -2 from rapid shot so that 6th extra attack made at 68 ab! Fallen, your mistaken about the progression. Bonus attacks are actually in a separate bucket that start off at the highest possible ab, then go down by -5 (even with monk progression), so the 3 existing bonus attacks would be a 0/-5/-10, a 4th additional attack would be at -20, giving you 95/90/85/95/90/85/80. My dual wield CoT has the following: CoT: Dual Katana + div wrath Standard Prim and Off attacks are -4, Prim bonus attacks are standard ab with 5 iteration 4 95 Prim Standard -4 9 90 Prim Standard -4 14 85 Prim Standard -4 19 80 Prim Standard -4 0 99 Prim Bonus 5 94 Prim Bonus 4 95 Off -4 9 90 Off -4 In many builds, the very highest attack is the first bonus attack. I believe that bonus attacks will continue past -15/-20/-25, but there are very few builds that can test this. I believe only a HS/AA, which I haven't been able to test with yet. -G The said divine slingers goes to -20 and if there would be another bonus attack it'd be at -25, that is what i listed there. Base attacks 95/90/85 bonus attacks 95/90/85/80/75/70 -2 on all from rapid shot Divine slinger does alrdy get 4 additional attacks + 5th from activating rapid shot ,giving them 6th would be at -25 ab. |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Aug 3, 2011 15:59:09 GMT
Hmmm Murphy can correct me I've got this wrong but he helped me test out the number of attacks I was getting per round on my Slinger and I was hitting 8 attacks per round. Think the lowest was at 73ab.
That was using Rapid Shot. And of course my starting ab is 97 so it's a little higher than 95 heh.
Cata
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Post by Yojimbo on Aug 3, 2011 16:51:01 GMT
Fallen, your mistaken about the progression. Bonus attacks are actually in a separate bucket that start off at the highest possible ab, then go down by -5 (even with monk progression), so the 3 existing bonus attacks would be a 0/-5/-10, a 4th additional attack would be at -20, giving you 95/90/85/95/90/85/80. My dual wield CoT has the following: CoT: Dual Katana + div wrath Standard Prim and Off attacks are -4, Prim bonus attacks are standard ab with 5 iteration 4 95 Prim Standard -4 9 90 Prim Standard -4 14 85 Prim Standard -4 19 80 Prim Standard -4 0 99 Prim Bonus 5 94 Prim Bonus 4 95 Off -4 9 90 Off -4 In many builds, the very highest attack is the first bonus attack. I believe that bonus attacks will continue past -15/-20/-25, but there are very few builds that can test this. I believe only a HS/AA, which I haven't been able to test with yet. -G The said divine slingers goes to -20 and if there would be another bonus attack it'd be at -25, that is what i listed there. Base attacks 95/90/85 bonus attacks 95/90/85/80/75/70 -2 on all from rapid shot Divine slinger does alrdy get 4 additional attacks + 5th from activating rapid shot ,giving them 6th would be at -25 ab. I think you completely missed his point that bonus attacks like those that a CoT, SD, Clockwork Boots, Harper Boots, Divine Power, and Storm Avatar grant ignore the progression and start it over. So granting a bonus attack via GMW using the same mechanics as those would result in an additional attack using the first AB iteration. |
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Post by fallenwizard on Aug 3, 2011 20:00:04 GMT
I think you completely missed his point that bonus attacks like those that a CoT, SD, Clockwork Boots, Harper Boots, Divine Power, and Storm Avatar grant ignore the progression and start it over. So granting a bonus attack via GMW using the same mechanics as those would result in an additional attack using the first AB iteration. No, it wouldnt use the first AB iteration, it'd be added into end of line alrdy existing 4(5 witth rapid shot) bonus attacks being -20 or -25. As for Cata's test. 3 base, 5 bonus, so 73 sounds too low to me. Cata do you have pointblank shot on slinger? If not you lose 4ab at short range attacking. I'd have to run ingame test to clarify if using rapid shot gets -2 on only base attacks and bonus attacks ignore this -2. If it is like that, Cata's attacks with 97 top ab, having rapid shot active would be 95/90/85/97/92/87/82/77 and -4 to all of them if he lacks point blank shot and was attacking within 15 feet of the target. I dont really get how else Cata would have that low AB on 5th bonus attack with start of 97. Note that the bonus attack that GMW was suggested adding would be -5 on that 73. Well, if target is knockdowned ranged attacks get penalty on hit (thou target also loses a lot of AC). |
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Post by shardelay on Aug 3, 2011 20:17:35 GMT
Actually, I posted this on a slinger build thread but maybe its more appropriate here. I'm confused as to how cata gets 8 attacks on his slinger (it's pure cleric right?)
He will have 15bab so 3 prim attacks.
1 bonus from haste
2 bonus from DP
1 bonus from Rapid shot
So one progression starting at his max ab of 97 - 2 for rapid shot (95/91/85)
And one progression starting at his max ab of 97 (97/92/87/82)
a low ab of 73 REALLY confuses me if his base ab is 97. I have no idea how that would come about. I also don't know where the 8th attack comes from (pls point out my obvious error...)
I was under the impression that I needed to splash 4 paladin (or other t1 bab) to get 16bab to get 4 base attacks to get a total of 8.
I also am confuzzled by his 98 ab as he wont be getting the extra LBAB cause of no tier1 classes.
My ab calc is (w/out rapid shot)
Attack Bonus
BAB 16 (4 pal levels)
EAB 10
LAB 15 (t1 LBAB from 3+ t1 levels)
WF? 1
GWF? 1
EWF? 2
LWF? 2
EP & LWF? 1
Epic Prowess 1
WM bonus 0
Arcane Archer 0
size mod 0
CW 0
opportunist 0
oppor 2 0
Str mod 0
Wis Mod 29 (that is with 68 wis)
Dex mod 0
Cha Mod 0
Buff 20
Buffed Total 98
so to get his 97, w/otu the 1 from 4 pal lvls and the 3 from LBAB he would need the same feats + 3 more ab which would require 6 more wis. perhaps he's got 74 wis. That would solve my question.
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Post by shardelay on Aug 3, 2011 20:17:55 GMT
Ah nm on the ab question, I forgot he could have CW.
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Post by maljin on Aug 3, 2011 20:29:55 GMT
[...] I also don't know where the 8th attack comes from (pls point out my obvious error...) [...] I also am confuzzled by his 98 ab as he wont be getting the extra LBAB cause of no tier1 classes. Divine Power increases your bab to the one of a fighter of the same level; the ab increase is within the +20 cap so doesn't actually increase your bab but add ab to reach whatever is missing. But it also increases your attacks to the number the fighter (or any other tier 1 bab class) would get. So you get: 3 base 1 haste 1 divine power (at CL 16) 2 divine power (at CL 45 and 55) 1 rapid shot Tenser's work exactly the same in that regard. You probably missed it because it's a vanilla change, doesn't have anything to do with hg modifications. Slingers don't need 3 tier 1 bab class levels to get LL bab from divine power. I'm not sure if it's mentioned in the slinger doc but it certainly is in the spell description ingame if you're using HGenhanced. mal |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Aug 3, 2011 20:33:14 GMT
Nice spot Mal, I completely forgot about the extra attack u get from Divine Power pre epic. It gives a total of 3 extra not 2 accounting for my 8 attacks per round, I was completely confused reading this thread as to how I had 8 instead of 7 attacks hehe. Phew glad I aint going crazy :/ (Well more crazy  ) And yes my Slinger is pure Cleric and Dex Based Cata |
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Post by shardelay on Aug 3, 2011 20:35:38 GMT
Divine Power - Grants +2 temporary HP per CL before 40, and +10 per CL above 40. - Raises Str to 18, +2 per 5 CL above 15, to a maximum of +12. - Grants additional attacks at CL45 and CL55. - At CL41, increases Legendary BAB to that of a fighter if the caster has at least three levels in 1/1 BAB classes. however, nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Divine_power "Base attack bonus improves to that of a fighter of the same character level; caster level is ignored for this aspect of the spell. For example, this spell grants any level 14 character the base attack bonus of a level 14 fighter (i.e. +14/+9/+4), regardless of that character's classes and class levels. Extra attacks per round can be gained by the increased base attack bonus (BAB). The number of extra attacks is determined by the usual progression based on the improved BAB, but each of the extra attacks will be free attacks (starting at full base attack). For example, a level 16 cleric (with a normal BAB of +12/+7/+2) will have, upon casting this spell, base attacks of +16/+11/+6/+16. These additional attacks do not show up on the character sheet." Therefore yes, you are right. The extra prim attack is coming from the DP/BAB like you say. I'll need to update my build sheet. I'll also need to reinc my battle cleric.... How in the world did i miss that all these years... |
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Post by gandoron on Aug 3, 2011 22:01:20 GMT
base attacks of +16/+11/+6/+16. Should be +16/+11/+6/+1 |
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Post by shardelay on Aug 3, 2011 22:36:32 GMT
base attacks of +16/+11/+6/+16. Should be +16/+11/+6/+1 Tell that to the wiki. i agree |
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Post by Yojimbo on Aug 3, 2011 22:41:30 GMT
I think I remember reading somewhere that the bonus attack base DP grants is lost if your BAB is already +16 or great and you already have an attack progression w/ 4 iterations anyone confirm this?
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