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Post by flay on Jan 6, 2008 12:03:01 GMT
With 4 attacks from BAB, 1 from haste, 2 from double weapon, and 2 from harper scout secret, this build gets 9 attacks per round. Combined with cold or sonic damage from rage, this barbarian has a decent damage output.
Edit: Koly version with 11 attacks per round on page 2.
This is the maximum number of attacks when using the Harper Scout secret (which gives two additional attacks). I'm not sure about the uses and duration. But it should still be of use when it counts most: when beating down Asmodeus in his third form and the clock is ticking on more spawns.
Human Maelephant
Barbarian 33 Monk 2 Harper Scout 5
Barbarian 14, monk 2, HS 4 in pre-epic.
Str 15 / 19 Dex 14 Con 14 / 20 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 8
All level up ability increases go to strength.
Skills (504 skill points) -Discipline 63 (HS prereq Discipline 4) -Craft Armor 63 -Craft Weapon 63 -Tumble 60 -Intimidate 63 -Listen 63 -Lore 6 (HS prereq) -Persuade 8 (HS prereq, pick this on a monk level) -Search 4 [cross-class] (HS prereq) -Taunt 63 (I would reccomend a voiceset without a taunt emote) -UMD 22 [cross-class] (in legendary levels)
Free Feats -Toughness -Heavy Armor Proficiency -ESF Taunt -ESF Intimidate
Pre-Epic Feat -Blooded -Exotic Weapon Proficiency -Weapon Focus (Dire Mace) -Alertness (HS prereq) -Iron Will (HS prereq) -Lightning Reflexes -TWF -Improved Critical (Dire Mace)
Harper Bonus Feats -Favored Enemy Outsider -Great Dexterity I
Epic Feats -Ambidexterity -ITWF -Epic Weapon Focus -Armor Skin -Epic Fortitude -Great Strength I -ESF (Listen)
Barbarian Feats -Epic Prowess -Thundering Rage -Terrifying Rage
Legendary Feats -LSA Tumble -LWF (Dire Mace) -LWill -LReflex -Mighty Rage -ESF Discipline -LSF (UMD)
Saves Fort 65 Ref 63 Will 64
Final strength is 56 (+23), 58 with str artifact
AB 90 (including size and twf penalties); +1/2/3 craft weapon; +1 with str artifact; +1 vs. outsiders
AC in medium armor (+17 medium armor, +17 natural, +17 deflect, pentative shield) 126 base +1/2/3 craft armor +3 strongheart +4 gird --- 136 max
Edit: An update from my previous barbarian 36 monk 2 bg 2 build. This is a build I had previously been working on and set aside. There are similar builds around, but this one is updated for recent changes to the module.
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Post by mrbadexample on Jan 6, 2008 12:12:09 GMT
Are you going to be boosting you CHA with gear? cause with 8 CHA you'll have -1 to all you saves cause of BG
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Post by flay on Jan 6, 2008 12:25:39 GMT
The saves are counted with a maxed charisma bonus. Without +12 to charisma, saves would be 5 lower than what is shown. I don't believe a charisma malus lowers saves for BG and paladins.
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Post by mishimayukio on Jan 6, 2008 12:30:47 GMT
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Post by flay on Jan 6, 2008 12:34:52 GMT
Ah, thank you for the clarification. I made this build with a goal of 64 will and fort in mind. So in any case, maxing charisma is essential in whichever gear setup is chosen. And it also helps a little with taunt and intimidate.
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Post by flay on Jan 6, 2008 12:46:54 GMT
A variant of this build can also be made with rogue 2 and paladin 2. This will allow the character to have UMD instead of concentration. Alignment changes would have to be made at various points.
With 43 in UMD, the extra skill points could be placed in concentration, and with some concentration bonus on gear, the character might be able to eviscerate paragon nupperinos without losing the weapon. If concentration isnt high enough, barbarian furies can do the job.
The monk/blackguard version has the advantage of being able to do Rona runs with less trouble, and the rogue/paladin also has fear immune.
Comparing these, the rogue/paladin version looks better (being able so use scrolls and greater sanctuary without relying on precious), though more troublesome with alignment shifts.
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Post by fragment on Jan 6, 2008 13:29:01 GMT
monk/bg vs. rogue/pally: The beauty of going monk/bg is that you get cleave automatically with monk, which is a prerequisite for 1) blackguard and 2) overcrit and devcrit (via great cleave). If you're not going the devcrit route but the twf route instead, rogue/pally might indeed make more sense than monk/bg. Plus, going with pally gets you heavy armor for free.
I have this guy at level 48 currently, I used 1 mnk/3 bg which loses me a few skill points ...
Barbarian
"Maelephant" (secret Beyond UltraRare; changes Appearance) - STR +4, CON +6, free feat: Heavy Armor Proficiency, free feat: Toughness, free feat: Epic Skill Focus - Intimidate, free feat: Epic Skill Focus - Taunt, increases character size to large, speaks Infernal
S 16 (20) D 14 C 16 (22) W 8 I 12 C 8
Skills
Craft Armor, craft weapon (58?), discipline, intimidate, listen, tumble (LL, 60), hide (5)
Levelling
1 Blooded, luck of heroes 3 wf (h flail) 6 blind fight 9 improved crit (h flail) 12 power attack 15 iron will 17M lawful hide(5) chaotic 18 great cleave
21 over crit 24 dev crit 25 *terrifying rage 27 epic wf 29 *mighty rage 30 armor skin 33 epic reflex, *thundering rage 36 ESF Listen 37 *epic prowess 38Bg 39Bg great str 1 40Bg
Saves@40: 29, 24, 19 Saves@60: 69, 64, 66 (+40=5 ll+20 items+6 abilities+6 cha bonus+3 luck)
LL LSA tumble, LL luck, lwf, great str 2, 3, 4, ll will
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Post by flay on Jan 6, 2008 14:12:52 GMT
Noticed a lot of people take listen with their barbarians. Might be a better pick than one of the skills I got, though I'm not sure which one to switch.
If I got listen, I'd be incluned to fit in ESF Listen and LSF Listen, though I'm not sure it would be a worthwhile investment (not knowing how listen conceal is calculated), nor which feats to replace.
I might replace parry, however not having played a barbarian yet, I dont know how long rages last and if theres ever problems getting critted, or if its a non-issue for barbarians.
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Post by flay on Feb 14, 2008 10:20:17 GMT
I just redesigned Kill Frenzy. Now more lethal, more durable, and can use scrolls without difficulty. The first post has the updated build.
The original version: Human Maelephant Chaotic Evil
Barbarian 36 Monk 2 Blackguard 2
Barbarian 20 in pre-epic 2nd blackguard level at 40 to max concentration
Str 14 / 18 Dex 15 Con 16 / 22 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 8
All level up ability increases go to strength.
Skills -Discipline 63 -Parry 63 -Craft Armor 63 -Tumble 60 -Intimidate 63 -Taunt 63 (I would reccomend a voiceset without a taunt emote) -Concentration 43 -Hide 5 +18 extra skill points [?]
Free Feats -Toughness -Heavy Armor Proficiency -ESF Taunt -ESF Intimidate
Pre-Epic Feat -Blooded -Exotic Weapon Proficiency -Weapon Focus (Dire Mace) -Ambidexterity -TWF -ITWF -Lightning Reflex -Iron Will
Epic Feats -Improved Critical (Dire Mace) -Blindfight -Epic Will -Epic Weapon Focus (Dire Mace) -Terrifying Rage -Great Strength I -Great Strength II
Barbarian Bonus Epic Feats -Armor Skin -Epic Prowess -Thundering Rage -Mighty Rage
Legendary Feats -LSA Tumble -LWF (Dire Mace) -LWill -LReflex -LSF (Intimidate) -LSF (Craft Armor) -LSF (Taunt)
Saves Fort 66 Ref 63 Will 64
AB 92 (with maxed buffs, and including size and twf penalties)
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Post by flay on Jun 30, 2008 20:28:11 GMT
Updated the build.
Not sure if the mighty rage attack bonus stacks or not. I'm not sure of terrifying rage is worth taking either.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jun 30, 2008 21:31:30 GMT
I would drop Taunt for Listen tbh, u don't really need it altho I admit it can be useful but then most bards use it ne way. With Listen instead of Taunt u wouldn't need ESF Taunt either, so u could swap that out perhaps for ESF Discipline, to help against those lovely slag checks in deeper hells Also iirc u can use a shield with Barbarian and still get the bonuses from 2weap fighting feats, my brownie barb does and she used Tower Shield and Dire Mace Mighty rage Attack Bonus falls within the +20 Cap I think but I could be wrong, even so why would u NOT want unresistable cold damage? As for Terrifying Rage I can't uderstand why u wouldn't want that either, it lowers both saves and AB, meaning less chance to hit u and more chance they will fail saves against others in party who have insta kill effects or abilities or spells such as Assassins, PM's, etc. Might not look like a lot but -2 ab could be the difference between u managing to get down that heal pot or not and the -2 Saves can help more than u would think. Also why would u take Heavy Armour Proficiency? I would have thought with 15 base Dex u would get higher AC from Medium Armour? Also save u a feat, it is also worth pointing out that if u took Listen instead of Taunt u could drop Blind Fight, freeing up a second feat, that could give u an extra 2 Great Str or u could keep the Blind Fight and take one Great Dex to make ya Dex 16, odd stats are to be avoided if possible, 16 Dex over 15 might not sound like much but it is an extra point of AC Sorry not trying to pull your build apart am just curious as to your choices and comments about the rages
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Post by Chaos on Jun 30, 2008 21:47:23 GMT
Heavy Armor Proficiency is free with Maelephant.
HawkeZ
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jun 30, 2008 22:07:22 GMT
Doh!!! That answers that one then
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Post by flay on Jun 30, 2008 22:54:16 GMT
I would drop Taunt for Listen tbh, u don't really need it altho I admit it can be useful but then most bards use it ne way. With Listen instead of Taunt u wouldn't need ESF Taunt either, so u could swap that out perhaps for ESF Discipline, to help against those lovely slag checks in deeper hells My build has both taunt and listen. ESF Taunt is from Maelephant. I could switch LSF UMD to ESF Discipline, but that might lead to failed umd checks. But with greater sanctuary potions available now, that might be less of an issue than it used to be. Also iirc u can use a shield with Barbarian and still get the bonuses from 2weap fighting feats, my brownie barb does and she used Tower Shield and Dire Mace I've been told that with a shield, you get two extra attacks with double weapons + feats instead of four. I'm not sure how shapestrong factors into this, is I've heard conflicting information concerning it. I havent tested it so I can't say. Mighty rage Attack Bonus falls within the +20 Cap I think but I could be wrong, even so why would u NOT want unresistable cold damage? Because the unresistable sonic damage from thundering rage is higher? I'm not sure about this, as I haven't checked barbarian information in a long time. Regardless, you'd want mighty rage for the crit immunity (I think thats how barbarians get their crit immunity...) As for Terrifying Rage I can't uderstand why u wouldn't want that either, it lowers both saves and AB, meaning less chance to hit u and more chance they will fail saves against others in party who have insta kill effects or abilities or spells such as Assassins, PM's, etc. Might not look like a lot but -2 ab could be the difference between u managing to get down that heal pot or not and the -2 Saves can help more than u would think. I'm not sure if terrifying rage applies against all enemies. I believe I heard that although all enemies displayed the floating skulls, mind-immunity would protect against the effects. If thats the case, you'd have to check which enemies it works against to decide if terrifying rage is worth the feat (and skill points). Also why would u take Heavy Armour Proficiency? I would have thought with 15 base Dex u would get higher AC from Medium Armour? Also save u a feat, it is also worth pointing out that if u took Listen instead of Taunt u could drop Blind Fight, freeing up a second feat, that could give u an extra 2 Great Str or u could keep the Blind Fight and take one Great Dex to make ya Dex 16, odd stats are to be avoided if possible, 16 Dex over 15 might not sound like much but it is an extra point of AC With most medium armor, 14 dex +12 from gear caps out the AC bonus from dex. This isnt the case for all medium armors though, but the build is very feat-tight, which is why I didnt spend a second gdex. The great dex is from harper scout in epic levels, so it cant be changed to much else. The reason dex is odd at 15 is the twf prereq. I'm considering dropping blindfight, moving one of the twf feats to pre-epic, and grabbing ESF Discipline. Actually I'll update the build that way now. I originally took blindfight because there are times when AC will drop without blindfight, so it was a purely defensive measure. However, after an Asmodeus fight where my teammates were getting slagged constantly, ESF Discipline seems like a good investement. Sorry not trying to pull your build apart am just curious as to your choices and comments about the rages No worries, I'm glad to get feedback on this. Its a work in progress. Theres lots of things I'm not sure how to optimize with this build. Which skills to pick out of Parry, Taunt, and UMD? Should I get Terrifying Rage or not, whats it good against? Am I better off using either mighty or thundering rage in the vast majority of situations, making terrifying near-useless? Then using the points from Intimidate to cap out UMD and get some concentration? Do I need UMD at all, or should I get some concentration? Or a little bit of parry even if it isnt maxed?
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 1, 2008 0:02:41 GMT
The Sonic Damage iirc isn't unresistable? I personally use both rages, no reason not to, sepecially since Crit Immune comes from Rages. I mentioned Listen because in ya skills list on the Revised Version u didn't list Listen as a skill so hadn't realised u had taken it Skills -Discipline 63 -Parry 63 -Craft Armor 63 -Tumble 60 -Intimidate 63 -Taunt 63 (I would reccomend a voiceset without a taunt emote) -Concentration 43 -Hide 5 +18 extra skill points [?] This is what u listed. With the extra attacks iirc what I was told by two excellent Barb Builders then u get only two extra attacks ne way not 4, and Shapestrong is required for that to work if using a shield?
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