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Post by louisvilleslugger on Dec 2, 2008 1:41:09 GMT
I wanted an evil cleric, so I could focus on necromancy spells (Heartbane & Mass inflict, yay!).
I also wanted do accomplish the normal cleric duties (miracle, ploding, +1 party buff)
I don't have half celestial, and the closest I have is pharlan, but fallen angel seemed to work better for this build.
Let me know what you think, especially on taking epic reflexes vs. greater ruin and Aegis vs. IoF.
=========================================================== VERSION 1
Pro's: Nice Spell Penetration Nice Epic Spells (Miracle, Conversion, Eternal Return, IoF or Aegis) Nice evocation and necromantic spells Can do Rona/Elysium runs without worrying as much Access to crit immunity ring
Con's: Sub-optimal saves Low AC Low Discipline
==================================================
Cleric 60
Race: Human Subrace: "Fallen Angel" (secret UltraRare; adds wings) - FCs: Base Race, Cleric - WIS +5, CHA +2, +10 heal, free feat: Divine Might, free feat: Divine Shield, able to walk on quicksand
Starting Stats: Str 8 --0 Con 14 --6 Dex 10 --2 Wis 18 (23) --16, end: 52(64) Int 14 --6 Cha 8 (10) --0
1., feat: SF-Evocation, human: Luck of Heroes Domains: Evil, Healing 2. 3., feat: GSF-Evoc 4. (WIS EVERY TIME) 5. 6., Feat: SF-Necro 7. 8. () 9. , feat: GSF-Necro 10. 11. 12., feat: Extended Spell() 13. 14., 15., feat: SF-Divination 16. () 17. 18., feat: GSF-Divination 19. 20. ()
Pre-Epic BAB= 15 Pre-Epic HP= 160 Pre-Epic Save= (fort=12 , reflex=6 , will=12 ) -Base Pre-Epic Skill points =
EPIC
21., feat: Spell Penetration 22. 23., c.feat: ESF-Evocation 24., feat: Greater Spell Penetration() 25. 26., c.feat: ESF-Necromancy 27. , feat: Epic Spell Penetration 28. () 29., c.feat: ESF-Divination 30. , feat: Great WIS 1 31. 32., c.feat: Great WIS 2() 33. , feat: Great WIS 3 34. 35., c.feat: Great WIS 4 36. , feat: Great WIS 5() 37. 38., c.feat: Great WIS 6 39. , feat: Epic Reflexes or Greater Ruin** 40. , ()
Epic BAB= 25 Epic HP= 320 Epic Save= (fort=22 , reflex=16 , will=22 ) Base Epic Skill points =
LEGENDARY: Cleric
41. BOOK: Transmutation (IoF) or Abjuration (Aegis)--Not sure yet 42., Feat: Legendary Spell Penetration-() 43. 44. () 45., Feat: Legendary Luck 46. () 47. 48. , Feat: LSF-Evocation() 49. 50. () 51. , Feat: LSF-Necromancy 52. () 53. 54. , Feat: Great WIS 7() 55. 56. () 57. , Feat: Great WIS 8 58. () 59. 60., Feat: Great WIS 9 ()
Leg. BAB = 37 Leg. Base save = fort=27, reflex=21, will=27) Leg. Base HP = 480 + CON14(26) Leg. Skill points=
==================================== Skills (total skill pts=2 + 2 + 1)
Discipline=30(60) Tumble=30(60) Concentration=63 Heal=63 Spellcraft=63
=====================================
Final Max. Saves (CON14(26)=8, DEX10(22)=6, WIS52(64)=27, LoH/legendary luck= +4)
Fort=27+8+20+4=59 Reflex=21+6+20+4=51 (**or 55 if epic reflexes taken) Will=27+27+20+4=78
Maximum AC
Base=10 Dex10(22)=3* Tumble=6 Natural=17 Deflection=17 Dodge=20 Shield (tower)=3+17(tower/large shield?) armor (fullplate)=8+17 armorskin=0 AC=118 **+18 fullplate/tower via magic vestment if abjuration taken=120**
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Post by johannhowitzer on Dec 2, 2008 5:18:14 GMT
IoF is a very powerful offensive spell... Aegis is a rather potent defensive spell. I've heard a lot of people trash Aegis, but the fact is that it DOES have its place in Hells, especially if the cleric is pure. The typical gear setup even with BURs will have 15-20 resist on each exotic... a pure cleric raises this to 30, and adds some immunity to boot. With elemental immunities typically at or near 100% consistently and resists covering whatever is missing, that extra exotic boost means even more. My impression is people don't really get a good sense of how much it helps, since it's working in the background and they don't have good data to compare... whereas it's easy to tell if you're doing more damage with IoF than without. Personally I would take IoF, but it does depend somewhat on the situation, I think.
The big issue with low reflexes is Arachill webs in Stygia and Cania. My Druid has low reflexes, but can also use the Silks of the Arachill light armor to provide some immunity when needed. It would hurt a lot more for this build. I am not sure I would take Greater Ruin on this, but you might fit both if you dropped Luck/Leg Luck and took the pre-epic and legendary Reflex feats instead. Drop of 4 fort, gain of 5 reflex, not sure how much that fort would hurt.
Pure builds usually have some glaring weaknesses no matter what you do. The key is adapting your play to compensate.
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Post by simpetar on Dec 2, 2008 10:50:32 GMT
Most people nowadays expect clerics to buff the party with girding, iof or, optimally, both. I think however that Abjuration has its rightful place in the world. With the new areas in mind, Aegis proves simply great, being pure allows you to net 18 AC modifier to your own metal armor or shield (I was surprised how great Ssithrak Skirmisher Scale is great armor all of sudden), you can buff your party with extended Energy Immunity and last but not least you have a semi-reliable version of Banishment. I like Abjuration.
cheers simpetar
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Post by Rain on Dec 2, 2008 12:02:28 GMT
I'm thinking of reinc my cleric when he hits x5 so here's some of my new cleric build idea when it comes to your FA version:
1. I donot worry too much about 1 more SP if it's a ploder caster, so personally i'd go 58 cleric/1ranger/1monk combo. ranger for discipline and extra feat: greater ruin. cuz after playing my cleric for quite some time i found this epic is really very helpful and essential for a cleric. raja, para brachina/falx/narzugons/dogai etc. without killing them fast, they can easily wipe party. and the more i play in hell the more i'd want my build to be effective when he's in a high demi party which means more randoms. going pure for an ploder caster means +1 to prayer/battltide and sp and that's it. but for a pure turner has 1 more TP and 1 more destruction dc which is quite differernt. so personally i wouldnot go pure on a caster cleric. with one extra feat on ranger i'd go either greater ruin+ epic reflex or greater ruin+empower spell. empower cuz heartbane is a lvl 4 spell, u live on it and lvl 6 slot is quite cheap. i'd use lvl 4 slots for more prayer and lvl 5+6 for heartbane. more enervation is nice for such a build too. and ohh i so like empowered slay living/inflict critical wound/flamestrike on a min run. as for the monk lvl, i want monk ac more than that 1 more sp. u get lots of aoo as a caster cleric, without ICC, ac indeed helps even if u have gate there. actually my cleric's gate doesnot burn much unless he got kded/domed etc. which i got completely flat footed. going robe+asmo rod is the best for a cleric (i'd go this way even if i'm turner), the monk lvl can benefit the best from this gear setup.
2. Between iof and aegis i think it depends on how u wanna play a cleric. aegis is a very nice party buff especially in new areas( ely/abo) and the nine hells and u can feel the benefit in LL area too like a dustbone run. with abj foci, u can banish some monsters in ely/abo much easier which is another fun. and 50% elemetal imm on a certain domain is another nice thing on the choice. personally i'd take aegis since ur build is focused to be a top killer. abj these days is popular for ely/abo.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Dec 2, 2008 15:36:47 GMT
VERSION 2 (Cleric 58 Ranger 1 Monk 1)
Pro's: Nice Epic Spells (Greater ruin, Miracle, Conversion, Eternal Return, IoF or Aegis) Nice evocation and necromantic spells Can do Rona/Elysium runs without worrying as much Access to crit immunity ring
Con's: Low AC
==================================================
Cleric 58 Ranger 1 Monk 1
Race: Human Subrace: "Fallen Angel" (secret UltraRare; adds wings) - FCs: Base Race, Cleric - WIS +5, CHA +2, +10 heal, free feat: Divine Might, free feat: Divine Shield, able to walk on quicksand
Starting Stats: Str 8 --0 Con 14 --6 Dex 10 --2 Wis 18 (23) --16 Int 14 --6 Cha 8 (10) --0
1., feat: SF-Evocation, human: Luck of Heroes Domains: Evil, Healing 2. 3., feat: GSF-Evoc 4. () 5. 6., Feat: SF-Necro 7. 8. () 9. , feat: GSF-Necro 10. 11. 12., feat: Extended Spell() 13. 14., 15., feat: SF-Divination 16. () 17. 18., feat: GSF-Divination 19. 20.Monk1 () **max tumble here, cc skill rest of time**
Pre-Epic BAB= 15 Pre-Epic HP= 160 Pre-Epic Save= (fort=13 , reflex=8 , will=13 ) -Base Pre-Epic Skill points =
EPIC
21. , feat: Spell Penetration 22. 23. , 24. , feat: Greater Spell Penetration, c.feat: ESF-Evocation() 25. 26. 27. , feat: Epic Spell Penetration, c.feat: ESF-Necromancy 28. () 29. 30. , feat: Great WIS 1, c.feat: Greater Ruin 31. 32.() 33. , feat: Great WIS 3, c.feat: Great WIS 2 34. 35. 36. , feat: Great WIS 5, c.feat: Great WIS 4() 37. 38. 39., feat: Epic Reflexes, c.feat: Great WIS 6 40.Ranger1, r.feat: ESF-divination() **max discipline**
Epic BAB= 25 Epic HP= 320 Epic Save= (fort=23 , reflex=18 , will=23 ) Base Epic Skill points =
LEGENDARY: Cleric
41. BOOK: Transmutation (IoF) or Abjuration (Aegis)--Not sure yet 42. , Feat: Legendary Spell Penetration-() 43. 44. () 45. , Feat: LSF-Evocation 46. () 47. 48. , Feat: LSF-Necromancy() 49. 50. () 51. , Feat: Legendary Luck 52. () 53. 54. , Feat: Great WIS 7() 55. 56. () 57. , Feat: Great WIS 8 58. () 59. 60. , Feat: Great WIS 9 ()
Leg. BAB = 37 Leg. Base save = fort=28, reflex=23, will=28) Leg. Base HP = 480 + CON14(26) Leg. Skill points=
==================================== Skills (total skill pts=2 + 2 + 1)
Discipline=43 Tumble=30 (cost=23+7*2=37) Concentration=63 Heal=63 Spellcraft=63 parry=Remainder
=====================================
Final Max. Saves (CON14(26)=8, DEX10(22)=6, WIS52(64)=27, LoH/legendary luck= +4, epic reflexes=4)
Fort=28+8+20+4=60 Reflex=23+6+20+4+4=57 Will=28+27+20+4=79
Maximum AC
Base=10 Dex10(22)=3* Tumble=6 Natural=17 Deflection=17 Dodge=20 Shield (tower)=3+17(tower) armor (Fullplate)=8+17 armorskin=0 AC=118
Monk AC Base=10 Dex10(22)=6 Wis52(64)=27 Tumble=6 Natural=17 Deflection=17 Dodge=20 Shield=None Armor (robes)=0+15 Armorskin=0 AC=118
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Post by wnxstrikefighter on Dec 3, 2008 14:38:24 GMT
It would be nice to have LSF Divination on this build. As it stands now you will only be able to soak 725 hit points, and with that AC I think it would go quite quick. I think the only thing you could possibly drop is greater ruin which is a very tough choice.
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Post by Rain on Dec 4, 2008 1:59:23 GMT
Suggestion to your second version:
1.Now that u have monk lvl, u can max ur tumble to 40 at lvl 40. my build is 20cleric/1ranger/18cleric/1monk. at ranger lvl u get epic spell focus feat. at monk lvl, max tumble and disipline.
2.With monk lvl, the best gear setup at lvl 60 is robe+torch instead of heavy armor+tower shield due to ur monk wisdom ac. so with dim mak robe+ minauraos torch ur ac should be at least 127.
3.When you hit demi status, drop parry completely and put the 2 int into dex which grants 1 more ac/reflex. the reason is you can use asmo ruby rod which grants totally critical immune. and personally i donot suggest putting that critical imm ring on all the time unless you can use breach boots to fit the breach ring in hell cuz u'll need the other ring slot for elemental/exotic immunity.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Dec 4, 2008 13:57:19 GMT
Monk was taken at 20th to increase saves (Fort and Will +1, Reflex +2). Not sure which is better choice (AC vs. save).
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Post by Rain on Dec 4, 2008 16:07:20 GMT
Monk lvl in this build is completely for monk ac as well as tumble ac. if u donot, i'd say donot even bother to take one monk lvl.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Dec 5, 2008 1:49:39 GMT
VERSION 3 (Cleric 58 Ranger 1 Monk 1)
Pro's: Nice Epic Spells (Greater ruin, Miracle, Conversion, Eternal Return, IoF or Aegis) Nice evocation and necromantic spells Can do Rona/Elysium runs without worrying as much Access to crit immunity ring
Con's: Low AC
==================================================
Cleric 58 Ranger 1 Monk 1
Race: Human Subrace: "Fallen Angel" (secret UltraRare; adds wings) - FCs: Base Race, Cleric - WIS +5, CHA +2, +10 heal, free feat: Divine Might, free feat: Divine Shield, able to walk on quicksand
Starting Stats: Str 8 --0 Con 14 --6 Dex 10 --2 Wis 18 (23) --16 Int 14 --6 Cha 8 (10) --0
1., feat: SF-Evocation, human: Lightning Reflexes Domains: Evil, Healing 2. 3., feat: GSF-Evoc 4. () 5. 6., Feat: SF-Necro 7. 8. () 9. , feat: GSF-Necro 10. 11. 12., feat: Extended Spell() 13. 14., 15., feat: SF-Divination 16. () 17. 18., feat: GSF-Divination 19. 20.()
Pre-Epic BAB= 15 Pre-Epic HP= 160 Pre-Epic Save= (fort=12 , reflex=6 , will=12 ) -Base Pre-Epic Skill points =
EPIC
21. Ranger1, feat: Spell Penetration, r.feat: ESF-divination 22. 23. , 24. , feat: Greater Spell Penetration, c.feat: ESF-Evocation() 25. 26. 27. , feat: Epic Spell Penetration, c.feat: ESF-Necromancy 28. () 29. 30. , feat: Great WIS 1, c.feat: Greater Ruin 31. 32.() 33. , feat: Great WIS 3, c.feat: Great WIS 2 34. 35. 36. , feat: Great WIS 5, c.feat: Great WIS 4() 37. 38. 39., feat: Epic Fortitude, c.feat: Great WIS 6 40.Monk1, () **max tumble,discipline**
Epic BAB= 25 Epic HP= 320 Epic Save= (fort=22 , reflex=16 , will=22 ) Base Epic Skill points =
LEGENDARY: Cleric
41. BOOK: Transmutation (IoF) or Abjuration (Aegis)--Not sure yet 42. , Feat: Legendary Spell Penetration-() 43. 44. () 45. , Feat: LSF-Evocation 46. () 47. 48. , Feat: LSF-Necromancy() 49. 50. () 51. , Feat: Legendary Reflexes 52. () 53. 54. , Feat: Great WIS 7() 55. 56. () 57. , Feat: Great WIS 8 58. () 59. 60. , Feat: Great WIS 9 ()
Leg. BAB = 37 Leg. Base save = fort=27, reflex=21, will=27) Leg. Base HP = 480 + CON14(26) Leg. Skill points=
==================================== Skills (total skill pts=2 + 2 + 1)
Discipline=43 Tumble=40 Concentration=63 Heal=63 Spellcraft=63 parry=Remainder
=====================================
Final Max. Saves (CON14(26)=8, DEX10(22)=6, WIS52(64)=27, LR/legendary Reflexes= +9, epic fortitude=4)
Fort=27+8+20+4=59 Reflex=21+6+20+9=56 Will=27+27+20=74
Maximum AC
Base=10 Dex10(22)=3* Tumble=8 Natural=17 Deflection=17 Dodge=20 Shield (tower)=3+17(tower) armor (Fullplate)=8+17 armorskin=0 AC=120
Monk AC Base=10 Dex10(22)=6 Wis52(64)=27 Tumble=8 Natural=17 Deflection=17 Dodge=20 Shield=None Armor (robes)=0+15 Armorskin=0 AC=120
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Post by wnxstrikefighter on Dec 5, 2008 3:54:58 GMT
You can change luck of heroes and legendary luck to lightning ref and legendary ref as well as epic ref to epic fort. Neat gain is +1 to reflex save at the cost of -4 to will which is already quite high.
Also wondering why you are taking healing domain versus something like fire?
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Dec 5, 2008 12:47:08 GMT
You can change luck of heroes and legendary luck to lightning ref and legendary ref as well as epic ref to epic fort. Neat gain is +1 to reflex save at the cost of -4 to will which is already quite high. Also wondering why you are taking healing domain versus something like fire? Good call on the reflexes. Changed it for version 3. I took "healing" domain because I was under the impression that it empowered mass cure and mass inflict spells. I haven't tested to confirm.
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Post by wnxstrikefighter on Dec 5, 2008 19:47:30 GMT
I believe it will empower the mass cure line but not the inflict line. That being the case, I think you may be better off having energy buffer.
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