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Post by maljin on Dec 1, 2011 10:55:25 GMT
Modified initial post to include some information about the new summons. This is work in progress and I'll update the thread as I get more information. Summary of the update found at the bottom of the initial post. - 1.12.2011: Added a small paragraph about the new and reworked summons (those relevant for staffmasters only). This is a work in progress and will be expanded as I gather more knowledge about summons myself. For comparison I built a test chamber toon following exactly this layout with lsf: trans. Stressing again: This is work in progress and I have no intentions changing anything about the build since it works great (up to lvl 52 with my hardcore toon). So far I'm looking at summons for staffmasters as gimmicks, and will treat them as such in this build.
I do not plan to submit this build for the Contest, since it's such an old build novelty/creativity are long gone. But I do hope to get my hardcore character Glasyalabolas (following exactly this build) to 60 sometime (since I'm actually playing it again and have lots of fun with it) and be able to provide some screenshots. mal
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Post by Torin on Dec 1, 2011 13:27:50 GMT
Staffmasters are great and you put a lot of work into detailed description of this build. Its worth the contest imho.
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Post by vorshlumpf on Dec 1, 2011 20:31:42 GMT
Agreed. I plan to use it myself someday.
- Niilo
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Post by vorshlumpf on Mar 23, 2012 20:50:08 GMT
Correction, I've convinced my fiancée to use it for her second character I think she'll appreciate the touch of spell-casting mixed with general butt-kicking. The spell suggestions are great to have! A couple of observations: 1) At level 19 in the comprehensive leveling guide, you accidentally repeat the 19 skill points for Disc and Lstn. 2) The shortened Feat guide at the end accidentally repeats Spring Attack at level 15 in the place of Whirlwind Attack. 3) Doesn't the bonus feat of Weapon of Choice involve player interaction (meaning, they have to click to choose it even though there is only one choice)? If so, I'd suggest adding it to the condensed list of feats at the end. 4) FAI (For Anyone's Information), Pick Pocket can be taken earlier according to my automated progression table (which agrees with everything else you list). You can put 2 points into PP at level 1, 1 at level 3, 1 at level 58, and the final point at level 60 Thanks!
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Post by maljin on Mar 23, 2012 23:05:59 GMT
Thanks for your comments; I corrected the mistakes you pointed out and added Weapon of Choice: Quarterstaff at lvl 16. You can indeed only chose this one at this level, but nonetheless one has to select it manually.
I didn't list pick pocket earlier since I didn't put any points into it until lvl 55+. I think on my own char (which is lvl 59 currently) I still haven't put any points into PP because I was holding them in case I made a mistake earlier. I will check later this weekend though.
In fact with paragon levels appearing, I think you should max tumble (so 31 crossclassed) because you'll be able to increase it to 41 during paragon levels for another 2 ac (even though at great cost). As far as I know you can't convert skill points not spent at lvl 60 to paragon skill points (or just 1 single point) so it's a good idea to spend them anywhere you can: When I made this build it was pick pocket, at present I'd suggest ride since it might influence ability checks at some time.
I'll probably write a small paragraph about ride (or the rumors about ride) in the skills section later this weekend too. To be honest 10 skill points to spend on any skill you don't already have 20 to 30 skill points is very minor; what you get from gear or a bard song will almost always be much higher than these 10 (or 5) points spent during level-up. On the other hand even 1 skill point can make a difference of 1 ab/ab (in the case of craft weapon/armor) in one given moment.
mal
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Post by vorshlumpf on Mar 24, 2012 0:43:28 GMT
Hmm, interesting about ride. I look forward to reading about it. And good point about tumble and PLs - 61+ is really beyond me at the moment. Still getting used to having one immo ) - Niilo
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Post by maljin on Mar 25, 2012 15:20:28 GMT
Correction, I've convinced my fiancée to use it for her second character I think she'll appreciate the touch of spell-casting mixed with general butt-kicking. The spell suggestions are great to have! Be sure not to praise this build as a combat-mage mixing spells with melee attacks. A staffmaster uses his spells only to protect himself and to enhance his melee attacks; there are no offensive spells (like a fireball) worth casting in general. If you're looking for a build that mixes combat prowess with buffs AND some offensive spells have a look at a Bane Knight or Melee Blood Fire Mage. Battle Clerics also have some offensive spells (like harm) they use from time to time between swings. A staffmaster does not. To the ride skill: I've found the google spreadsheet I was looking for. The idea for ride was to make it similar to craft weapon/armor for stat checks, so every 40 points would add +1 as you can read up here. You'll also notice that it's written in red color, suggesting that the idea was deemed one of not feasible, overpowered or just not worth the time to code. If you happen to reach 60 and you need to spend the skill points because you can't port them into paragon levels, just spend them anywhere you like. I won't give a specific recommendation, just a couple of suggestions: - Pick Pocket (pp): You need to beat a dc of 30 + the targets spot score, which can be quite high (the Immortal for example has a dc of around 80-90). If you happen to have some nicely randomized gear with good amount of pp added to it (and remember that the pre-LL tags also add +5 to each skill if you've completed them all), you might be able to hit the dc a couple of times in Rona or elsewhere. You need to guess whether the time it takes to pick a potion and the time you're flatfooted while doing so is worth the time lost not beating on your target...especially if you need several attempts because of a low pp score.
- Ride: Nearly completely useless (it's a pre-req for the Purple Dragon Knight) as written above, you'd probably be better of skipping it for this time and should that ever change you can still reincarnate (or rebuild if you're playing hardcore).
- Spellcraft: I kinda like that because it allows you to identify spells cast by team mates or monsters. With the vast amount of spells implemented with HG enhanced, I have a hard time remembering all the graphics for each spell, so a written notice in the combat log might help you adapt. Even a very low score is enough to identify most spells. Further it allows you to counterspell spell casting mobs, you might not want to hit or that cast especially threatening spells. You really need to have knowledge about which spells are cast to memorize the exact counter spell (have a look on the nwn wiki or ask in game) as you lack the universal counter mordenkainen's disjunction. Counterspelling with a staffmaster is certainly possible, but probably done only by people with a large knowledge about the game already...and less those browsing the open subrace build boards.
- Appraise: You get more money selling stuff to the merchants and the chest in the Wandering Wyrm. You also get a discount when crafting (randomized) equipment or weapons at the forge or the alchemist respectively.
- Lore: At very low levels it helps you identifying the loot you've just picked up (the rings with +5 lore help a lot), later on it'll allow you to identify gems used to alter the damage types on randomized weapons. Since a staffmaster doesn't cast damaging spells, you won't benefit from the extra spell damage also affected by lore (aside from using spells to break objects).
- Spot: Same as spot increases dc to pick pocket for monsters, it'll increase the dc monsters have to hit when trying to pick your pockets. Even though the item they've stolen is not lost as you can get it back by paying a ransom, it's very annoying to lose something at any stage of the game.
mal
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Post by vorshlumpf on Mar 26, 2012 4:00:38 GMT
Yeah, the touch of spellcasting I was referring was for buffs (but also for the time spent pre-level 15).
Thanks for all the skill info. I didn't know that the mass seller was affected by Appraise - I wonder how it handles the various Appraise skills in a party...
- Niilo
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Post by maljin on Mar 31, 2012 10:37:58 GMT
I managed to get Glasyalabolas (my -HC- version of this build) to lvl 60 last night. Huge props to everyone in the party as this is my first lvl 60 -HC- character and my first trips to Dis and Min (regardless of -HC- or not). So here are some pictures of it at lvl 60: The non-lying part of the character sheet. The items I'm using grant +12 to all abilities across the board; there's not much to see aside from that. All spells/effects and their duration. I forgot to use my ring with Endure Elements cast at lvl 45 (so 4% to all elemental immunities). Note that during runs I only keep up the important spells with the long durations. Energy Immunity, Elemental Shield (both great buffs, but with a short duration) and Clairaudience/Clairvoyance I don't monitor and recast them every now and then. When some kind of miniboss or some other difficult things spawn I usually recast them to make sure they don't drop during the fight. For normal spawns it wasn't critical to always keep them up. The ac, ab and saves commands. Nothing you wouldn't know if you've ready the first post with the build. Saves were a bit lower last night in Dis and Min due to penalties, but that wasn't an issue. I think I never died from failed saves, but from huge damage incoming in a very short time (e.g. multiple crits). AC is nothing to write about, as it's 90% conceal, premonition and energy buffer that's keeping you alive. All immunities when buffed by my own spells. During the two runs yesterday, elemental shunt pushed all elemental immunities over 100% or close to it. I hardly took any damage aside from physical and magic (some internal wounding as well). Elec is pushed by the Energy Immunity spell on this picture which doesn't last very long, so it was often below 80% last night. Silence (randomization), Bigby (Thids cloak), Word of Faith and Mass Harm immunity come from gear, Breach from ring, Missile Storms from the Shield spell, Necromancy from Shadow Shield and level 6 and below from Ethereal Visage. And my gear: I was using an UR quarterstaff (with fire and magic) all the time as I don't have a Dustbone or lvl 35 version. I suppose most damage came from switching blackstaff to the damage the target was most vulnerable to and the physical damage from str and blackstaff as well. And obviously the damage was really high because of the extra 50% two-handers including staffmasters get at the time. For the next time I'll probably use that shop staff with 2d10 acid, elec, fire, sonic and switch blackstaff to cold or exotic when needed. The lack of level 8 slots is keeping me from having multiple staves with blackstaff on it. The rest of the gear is composed mostly of rare (helm, belt, ring) or UR pieces with the thids cloak for exotic immunities. Reason for the ring is that it has 3 elements at around 60-80% immunity, so with Elemental Shield and Energy Immunity I can cover everything with just that one ring. Unfortunately the belt is not as well randomized as the ring and lost most of the lvl 8 spell slots, so I only had 3 spell slots (enough for 1 blackstaff and 2 premo which last a really long time unless you die or get dispelled). maljin
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Post by Torin on Mar 31, 2012 10:54:16 GMT
Thanks for posting this. With 103 AC through Dis and Min in -HC- ! Impressive. Also never know of this !list effects.
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Post by vorshlumpf on Mar 31, 2012 19:10:46 GMT
Yes, I too appreciate you taking the time to share all of this. Congrats on 60!
- Niilo
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Post by maljin on Apr 9, 2012 9:43:41 GMT
Got to lvl 61 last night after another Dis (so far this toon has been to Tia 2x, Dis 2x, Min 1x) and got a quarterstaff from Dustbone as well. But to be honest I prefer my shop bought staff of the Superior Master over the DB quarterstaff most of the time. Now this is from a -HC- perspective without demi iterations in a Hell group, so Paragon enemies are not encountered (at all?) and relatively little care has to be taken on damage types that might heal a monster. If you're really worried about what kind of weapon you should be using, have a look at Rain's Wrath of the Inevitable. Pretty much every melee build with information about weapon choice links to this post where a composition of crafted Dis and DB weapons can be found and a very short summary when to use which weapon. Keep in mind though that crafting several weapons takes a lot of resources (trading weapons and gems) and time (collecting the former or other stuff to trade). With both a cleric and a bard in the group, this will get to 6d10 cold, 6d10 elec, 6d10 fire and 6d10 sonic. Blackstaff (12d10) can then bet set as acid or some kind of exotic damage depending on what you hit. So far I most stuff I've encountered is vulnerable to at least one elemental and one exotic (divine which isn't available on Blackstaff) and sometimes another exotic (magical, negative, positive). Apart from divine as "second" exotic vulnerability, I haven't seen anything that you'd like to damage with two exotic types (e.g. magic and negative), so Blackstaff set to the weakest exotic type and the 6d10 of all elements taking care of the rest of the spectrum you've got available will do you very good with relatively little damage swapping so you can pay attention to the rest of the group (like people on their backs, stoned or dead). The DB quarterstaff on the other hand can be buffed to 6d12 acid, 6d12 cold and 6d12 elec for which you need a druid (or assassin) and a cleric (or bg) in the group. Blackstaff then needs to be switched between fire and sonic and exotics, sometimes overwriting what you've already got. Now what is very nice on the db quarterstaff is the 2d12 divine damage, since most enemies take that. But 2d12 is quite bad compared to 6d10 or 6d12 of an element. maljin
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Post by chirality on Apr 12, 2012 2:07:53 GMT
Still the fact that it has pos as well rocks and I think there are plenty of mobs and runs where pos is doing the most damage; this works out awesome with Blackstaff.
DB weapons are basically a total toss-up so it seems to me and as far as damage types go I think quarterstaf is pretty perfect. Maybe it lacks the other staffy self-buff of fire, however as far as Hells go it's great luck (or choice? I dunno) that it lacks fire and retains cold for instance.
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Post by Torin on Apr 12, 2012 5:18:30 GMT
DB quarterstaffs can be crafted with gems. I've a crafted DB quarterstaff with fire and elec with my Staffmaster as first weapon.
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Post by buddhamind on Apr 12, 2012 13:31:49 GMT
DB quarterstaffs can be crafted with gems. I've a crafted DB quarterstaff with fire and elec with my Staffmaster as first weapon. Yes, crafting a DB weapon on a staffmaster is worth the time and expense, IMO. Since the Blackstaff damage doesn't stack with the base weapon damage, I find it useful to craft the weapon around what I *don't* want it to have. For DB weapons, you can choose to leave off two elementals and one exotic. For Hells I like to leave off Cold, Acid, and Positive, since those damages work well on certain creatures and are available through Blackstaff. This means the weapon should be crafted to have Elec, Fire, Sonic, Div, Magic, and Negative. For Abyss, nearly everything takes either Positive or Magic damage, so in addition to the above I like to have one *without* Magic. Setting it to Magic is great for taking down the less powerful Abyss creatures.
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