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Post by dragonledak on Apr 22, 2011 17:12:21 GMT
Another 2 handed wielding nightmare by me! Altenate Build Progression for Demi x2 and Paragon (Rough, no feats chosen, only ability spread) Pro's: -- Paladin Buffs (lvl 55 CL) -- Guardian Angle -- Mass Resurrection Ability -- Insanely High Saves -- Divine Inspiration -- self buffed 69 (71 with all tag bonus) damage modifier (divine might, prayer, divine favor, 1.5 Str mod) -- Very High Damage Greater Smite doing up to 1,680 divine and 420 sacred at level 60 -- 95 ab -- Paladin Fear and Disease Immune -- 21% immune to divine and positive damage from divine shield and Aura of Glory -- 10% immune to all physical damage types from Aura of Glory -- One off the max ab for Greater Smite (99 ab) -- UMD -- 40 Base Strength For Critical Hits Immunity Con's: -- AC isn't super high -- Dex Checks are troublesome ================================================== Gnomes (can speak Gnomish) Small Stature (+1 Ab and AC) -2 Str, +2 Con - All gnomes receive 2 additional skill points per level. Skill points for levels prior to 41 will be granted upon taking level 41. "Half-Eladrin" (secret Beyond UltraRare) - FCs: Bard, Paladin - +7 STR, +5 CHA, free feats: Great Charisma I, Great Charisma II, Divine Shield (3 uses/day if no Turn Undead uses) Optimized for
(All numbers below refer to the final state of the respective build) | Level 60, Immortal
| Level 60, 2x Demi | Level 80 | | Build | 35 Paladin, 4 CoT, 1 Rogue
| 35 Paladin, 4 CoT, 1 Rogue
| 35 Paladin, 4 CoT, 1 Rogue
| Abilities at character creation
(Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) | 12, 10, 14, 14, 14, 14 | 12, 14, 12, 14, 12, 14 | 12, 14, 12, 14, 12, 14 | | Pre-epic and epic ability progression | Cha 5 (take first)
Str 5 | Cha 10 | Cha 10 | Legendary level ability progression
| Str 2
Cha 8
| Cha 7
Str 3 | Cha 9
Str 1
| Pre-epic feats
Abreviations:
WF: Weapon Focus
IC: Improved Critical
| Blooded
Rapier Wit
WF: Rapier
IC: Rapier
Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Smiting | Blooded
Rapier Wit
WF: Rapier
IC: Rapier
Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Smiting | Blooded
Rapier Wit
WF: Rapier
IC: Rapier
Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Smiting | Epic feats
Abreviations:
EWF: Epic Weapon Focus
| Great Smite I-X
Armor Skin
EWF: Rapier
Epic Prowess, GCha III
| Great Smite I-X
Armor Skin
EWF: Rapier
Epic Prowess, GCha III
| Great Smite I-X
Armor Skin
EWF: Rapier
Epic Prowess, GCha III
| | Skill Notes | Max Listen and UMD on Rogue level at level 40 | Max Listen and UMD on Rogue level at level 40 | Max Listen and UMD on Rogue level at level 40 | | Legendary level feats | LSA: Tumble
LWF: Rapier
ESF: Listen
Extend Spell
LSF: Listen
Gcha IV
ESF: Craft Armor | LSA: Tumble
LWF: Rapier
ESF: Listen
Extend Spell
Gcha IV
Gcha V
Gcha VI | LSA: Tumble
LWF: Rapier
ESF: Listen
Extend Spell
Gcha IV
Gcha V
Gcha VI | | Paragon level feats | | | Feats Not Considered Yet | | Tome | Enchantment | Enchantment | Enchantment | | Artifact | The Orb of Dragonkind (+2 Con, poison immune) | The Orb of Dragonkind (+2 Con, poison immune) | The Orb of Dragonkind (+2 Con, poison immune) | | Pandect | | Craft Armor | Craft Armor | Abilities +12
(Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) | 52, 22, 28, 26, 26, 52 | 52, 28, 30, 30, 30, 62 | 52, 32, 32, 32, 32, 66 | | Skills | Total: 378
Concentration 43
Craft Armor 63
Listen 43
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Tumble 60
Use Magic Device 43 | Total: 378
Concentration 43
Craft Armor 63
Listen 43
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Tumble 60
Use Magic Device 43 | Total: 378
Concentration 43
Craft Armor 63
Listen 43
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Tumble 60
Use Magic Device 43 | AC
AB | 119-121
95-97 | 128-130(Strongheart, Asmo Deflection Arti)
100-102 | 129-131
102-104 | Saves
(Fort, Ref, Will) | 76, 68, 70 | 85, 78, 79 | ? who cares, super high, lol |
Any suggestions are welcome. *Thanks to Vichya for his help with the tables and build layout. *Edited based on suggestions to the build by KnightErrant and Vichya Dragon Ledak |
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Post by KnightErrant on Apr 22, 2011 19:31:20 GMT
I've gone thru a few incarnations with my shieldless Paladin....even had a maelephant version at one point..lol
A few things I learned:
Put some points in Dex...with a Dex so low you'll be dom'd by every Erinyes you see, in a good party they'll die fast enough you will only be slightly annoyed...in a less than stellar party you'll want to break your keyboard in two...
Using Divine Shield for AC is a major pain without great gear and knowing where the party KB mobs spawn...Every time a Hama or PF etc hits your shield you get "rewarded" with a extra 100-150 Magic-Acid KB damage....when you get trapped in a mass of mobs and a Machine or Fume is hitting you, everyone in the party gets "rewarded" with all that KB...
Also using a Con arty instead of a CHR one will make you immune to poison death from Rachugons, Brachnia, para Pit Fiends etc and allow you to inflict fire vulnerability on stuff before you Fire Smite them...
Also try to squeeze in Extend Spell...extended Crit Immunity and Aura of Glory is really really nice.
KE.
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Post by Vichya on Apr 22, 2011 19:49:37 GMT
I wouldn't bother with LSF Enchantment. It's only useful for +14 GMW and you can use an Enchantment Draught before you buff to get +14 too. Epic Skill Focus - Craft Armor is available as a Pandect from Minauros. I'd definitely use Con artifact, it's much much easier to get and the poisons immunity is amazing for certain areas. Legendary Skill Focus - Listen is not really necessary if you have average BUR gear. Its +20 bonus is in the +50 cap. You get +20 from bard song, maybe +10 from C/C, and you can get the remaining 20 points from some items commonly used by tanks, such as Vigor of Vigilence. You can safely reduce wisdom to 12 at character creation for the doubl demi build. With the +4 from demi you still get enough wisdom to cast level 5 spells, i.e. extended Death Wards for crit immunity. Also try to squeeze in Extend Spell...extended Crit Immunity and Aura of Glory is really really nice. Extend Spell is almost required for a paladin, not only for extended crit immunity but also to be actually able to cast all the spells you need. For example Bless Weapon, Deafening Clang, Divine Favour and Endure Elements are all level 1 spells for Paladins. Without some meta magic you won't be able to cast those spells very often. |
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Post by dragonledak on Apr 22, 2011 20:53:40 GMT
I knew about the pandect that is why it noted as the pandect I will use, but I thought it would be nice to take as feat until I could get said pandect.
LSF: Listen is just for Legendary version because I was worried about maxing it.
I originally had extend spell but forgot about extra smiting. I do agree it is necessary so I will drop LSF: Enchant for extend spell.
Taking the con arti does sound like I good idea and I think I will. That will also get rid of the odd modifier resulted in taking the cha arti, which is acceptable because I will not lose shield ac or phys dam imm.
I was not sure about being able to set wis to 12 and still able to take demi bonuses because I know for caster classes it requires you to have the correct base stat to cast all spells for the level you are in that class. But if that is not a problem for quasi casters, like paladins, then I will defiantly do that to get higher dex.
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Post by dragonledak on Apr 22, 2011 21:10:19 GMT
To KnightErrant, I guess this should not be my first toon to take to hell, did not think about the kickback. Why does divine shield have to have kickback.  |
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Post by Rain on Apr 23, 2011 5:04:38 GMT
I was not sure about being able to set wis to 12 and still able to take demi bonuses because I know for caster classes it requires you to have the correct base stat to cast all spells for the level you are in that class. But if that is not a problem for quasi casters, like paladins, then I will defiantly do that to get higher dex. This doesn't apply to Paladin/Ranger/Assasin/Blackguard, so you can definately do that after demi. Honestly, I don't think maxing listen is that hard on tanks. For non demi, I always use the mote with +5listen, so Listen is pretty much maxed with Bard song(Don't forget you have bard song as a paladin)+ CC+ Visor of Vigilance(I bet 95%tanks would use it which gives ESF:Listen for free plus a huge listen bonus). When you hit demi, you can use asmo arti some of which has like +30Listen bonus. Because it does damage to enemies when they hit you. So use it wise when your dodge rate is low, and also keep it mind some mob will get healed on divine damage. |
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Post by dragonledak on Jul 6, 2011 6:00:35 GMT
New revised version (different build progression) Pro's: -- Paladin Buffs (lvl 58 CL) -- Guardian Angle -- Mass Resurrection Ability -- Insanely High Saves -- Divine Inspiration -- self buffed 69 (71 with all tag bonus) damage modifier (divine might, prayer, divine favor, 1.5 Str mod) -- Very High Damage Greater Smite doing on average 882+220 and up to 1,680+420 -- 94 ab -- Paladin Fear and Disease Immune -- 21% immune to divine and positive damage from divine shield and Aura of Glory -- 10% immune to all physical damage types from Aura of Glory -- Two off the max ab for Greater Smite (98 ab) -- UMD -- 40 Base Strength For Critical Hits Immunity -- Evasion Con's: -- AC isn't super high -- Dex Checks are troublesome ================================================== Gnomes (can speak Gnomish) Small Stature (+1 Ab and AC) -2 Str, +2 Con - All gnomes receive 2 additional skill points per level. Skill points for levels prior to 41 will be granted upon taking level 41. "Half-Eladrin" (secret Beyond UltraRare) - FCs: Bard, Paladin - +7 STR, +5 CHA, free feats: Great Charisma I, Great Charisma II, Divine Shield (3 uses/day if no Turn Undead uses) Optimized for
(All numbers below refer to the final state of the respective build) | Level 60, Immortal
| Level 60, 2x Demi | Level 80 | | Build | 1 Rogue, 38 Paladin, 1 Rogue
| 1 Rogue, 38 Paladin, 1 Rogue
| 1 Rogue, 38 Paladin, 1 Rogue
| Abilities at character creation
(Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) | 12, 10, 14, 14, 14, 14 | 12, 14, 12, 14, 12, 14 | 12, 14, 12, 14, 12, 14 | | Pre-epic and epic ability progression | Cha 5 (take first)
Str 5 | Cha 10 | Cha 10 | Legendary level ability progression
| Str 2
Cha 8
| Cha 7
Str 3 | Cha 9
Str 1
| Pre-epic feats
Abreviations:
WF: Weapon Focus
IC: Improved Critical
| Blooded
Rapier Wit
WF: Rapier
IC: Rapier
Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Smiting | Blooded
Rapier Wit
WF: Rapier
IC: Rapier
Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Smiting | Blooded
Rapier Wit
WF: Rapier
IC: Rapier
Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Smiting | Epic feats
Abreviations:
EWF: Epic Weapon Focus
| Great Smite I-X
Armor Skin
EWF: Rapier
Epic Prowess
| Great Smite I-X
Armor Skin
EWF: Rapier
Epic Prowess
| Great Smite I-X
Armor Skin
EWF: Rapier
Epic Prowess
| | Skill Notes | Max Listen and UMD on Rogue level at level 40 | Max Listen and UMD on Rogue level at level 40 | Max Listen and UMD on Rogue level at level 40 | | Legendary level feats | LSA: Tumble
LWF: Rapier
GCha III
ESF: Listen
Extend Spell
Gcha IV
ESF: Craft Armor | LSA: Tumble
LWF: Rapier
GCha III
Extend Spell
Gcha IV
Gcha V
Gcha VI | LSA: Tumble
LWF: Rapier
GCha III
Extend Spell
Gcha IV
Gcha V
Gcha VI | | Paragon level feats | | | Feats Not Considered Yet | | Tome | Enchantment | Enchantment | Enchantment | | Artifact | The Orb of Dragonkind (+2 Con, poison immune) | The Orb of Dragonkind (+2 Con, poison immune) | The Orb of Dragonkind (+2 Con, poison immune) | | Pandect | | Craft Armor | Craft Armor | Abilities +12
(Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) | 52, 22, 28, 26, 26, 52 | 52, 30, 30, 30, 28, 62 | 52, 32, 32, 32, 30, 66 | | Skills | Total: 402
Concentration 63
Craft Armor 63
Listen 43
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Tumble 63
Use Magic Device 43 | Total: 402
Concentration 63
Craft Armor 63
Listen 43
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Tumble 63
Use Magic Device 43 | Total: 402
Concentration 63
Craft Armor 63
Listen 43
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Tumble 63
Use Magic Device 43 | AC
AB | 118-120
94-96 | 127-129(Strongheart, Asmo Deflection Arti)
99-101 | 128-130
101-103 | Saves
(Fort, Ref, Will) | 78, 68, 70 | 84, 77, 76 | 87, 80, 79 |
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Post by desocupado on Mar 14, 2012 22:39:33 GMT
Hehe I'm using a slightly modified version of the build, I'd like to make a few contributions. - Drop Rogue at level 1 and pick it at lvls 22 and 40 - i.e. 24 skills points is not worth 1 AB - I'd recommend moving these 24 points from either from concentration or craft weapon.
- Pre-demi this build doesn't get any benefit from rapier wit. One could use GWF instead (I took exotic weapon proficiency due some weapons i had). In fact I think it's not worth using rapiers before double-demi.
-------------------- Stealthy post: - BG version Pal vs BG: Pal: +30% Pos and +15% Physical Immunity // Breach on-hit // UMD // Higher Smite AB (98) // Evasion BG: +9d6 sneak // +20 physical damage (fighter splash) // Bestow curse (CL 56 - can become area with abyss helm) // Persuade (or taunt) // Summons Level Breakdown: Fighter 3 Pal 7 BG 10 (then Fighter +1 Bg +19) Stats - creation (assuming reincarnating a demix2) Str 12 (+7/sub +1/level +10/smiting +4/bonus +4/demi +2/paragon) Dex 14 Con 12 (+2/artifact) Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 14 (+5/sub +6/feat +19/level +4/bonus +4/demi +2/paragon) = 54 (up to 70 with +16) AC 10 - base 20 - natural 6+18+2 - armor modifer (cania plate) 5 - dex modifier 20 - deflection (asmo thing) 20 - dodge + haste 12 - tumble (depends on skill level) 2 - armor skin 15 - shield modifier (divine shield cha 70) 2 - skill modifier (craft armor with pandect) Total AC: 132 (up to +2/guird +1/ca pandect & max skill) AB: 20 +10 +15 +5 +7/feat +30/cha +20/mag = 107 (at 80) --Skills: 2 +2/int +2/gnome 1 - Concentration 30 Craft Weapon 30 2 - Craft Armor 63 3 - Discipline 63 4 - Tumble 60 Hide 4 (8) 5 - Listen - 30 (60) (alternative - reduce int by 2, increase Cha by 1 and pick blind fight instead of Great Charisma VI) 6 - Taunt/Persuade 63 (I prefer persuade due sneak attacks - High Cha make it easy to keep max) -Still got 60 paragon points (10 is enough to fully counter layer 5 penalties) Feat changes are marked with *Feats (7 +2/fighter): 1 - Blooded + WF: Rapier 3 - Power Attack + Rapier Wit 6 - Cleave* 9 - Divine Might 12 - IC: Rapier 15 - Extra Smiting 18 - Extend Spell* Epic feats (7 +6/BG +1/fighter): 21 - Weapon specialization* and Epic Specialization Rapier* Great Smite I-X EWF: Rapier Epic Prowess Legendary feats (7): LSA: Tumble LWF: Rapier GCha III Armor Skin* Gcha IV Gcha V Gcha VI Paragon (6) Planar adapitivity 1-3 --or-- G. cleave + OC + DC PWF (+2 AB) LWS (+6 dmg) PWS (+8 dmg) |
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