|
Post by starlandra on Nov 16, 2007 13:47:26 GMT
At first this build was going to only have 5 weapon master levels but since it is a little short on feats, and I needed all the reflex I can get I went ahead and did 7 wm all pre epic. This is another str build, but she also can tank just about any 'dex' type critter in the hells. To be able to do this she could not be a 'uber' str toon.
will add the starting stats when I can find em again buuut...
Had to use "Kolyarut" [glow=red,2,300](secret Beyond UltraRare) - STR +5, DEX +5, INT +2, CON +4, CHA -2, WIS -2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, free feat: Spring Attack, speaks Abyssal, speaks Celestial, speaks Infernal[/glow] to get the stats to work the way I wanted it so it may make it harder to work with ur races, but I am sure someone can.
11 ranger 7 wm 2 ranger 1 rogue 18 ranger 2 rogue
At level 60 Str 50 Dex 30 Con 30 Int 26 Wis 30 Chr 18
Saves Fort 61 Reflex 58 Will 61
Maxed tumble discipline parry listen and hide. The rest goes into craft armor which will only be around 33 or so but with bard song you get enough help to get the extra +1ac
AC with full buffs (gird and song to add to her craft armor skill) is 134 (144 with greater expertise)
AB is 83 with dis rapiers and no buffs. have gotten in the high 90's in the hells so using greater expertise does not stop me from dealing good damage.
Average crits are 500+ (10-20 x4)
Feats are start up Strong Soul and blooded
other feats
blindfight extend spell cleave great cleave power attack dodge mobility spring attack whirlwind attack expterise greater expertise Great Str I & II epic will epic reflexes overwhelming Critical devestaing critical weapon focus: rapier (took it cause could not afford the extra feat for exotic and wanted the crit rang plus I have 2 dis rapiers lol) armor skin prowlness bane of enemies epic weapon focus LL weap focus rapier Legendary skill afinity tumble Hardened Soul
I am sure I am missing things so I will fill in the blanks more once I log her back on. (dang missing notes!!!)
|
|
|
Post by phalthallus on Nov 16, 2007 13:56:31 GMT
Is this some bonus epic ranger feat? The feat to get LSA: Tumble is Blooded. I saw they were removed from the google doc too, and found them on the Legendary Levels thread here
|
|
|
Post by Lythe Featherblade on Nov 16, 2007 15:39:58 GMT
I don't know if you can squeeze it in there, but if you can get 2 more Str (to get to 40 base) you can use spell based crit immune at 60
Wondering why you're taking 3 rogue levels, for the uncanny dodge?
|
|
|
Post by uncanny on Nov 16, 2007 16:08:28 GMT
Wondering if this could fit into a ur race like baseborn or....?
|
|
|
Post by uncanny on Nov 16, 2007 17:53:21 GMT
I don't know if you can squeeze it in there, but if you can get 2 more Str (to get to 40 base) you can use spell based crit immune at 60 Wondering why you're taking 3 rogue levels, for the uncanny dodge? Wondered this too, with +10 dex ac it's worth retaining it. Just wondering if it's not more worthwhile getting 2 assassin rather, as the skillset is almost the same - you can't pick big locks, but then unless you're a dedicated lock picker you're not gonna get anything important anyway. Also, just noticed that these appear to be maxed stats (in other words, your str=38, dex=18, con=18, etc); this looked unbelievable at first glance. So... are they maxed or actual raw stats?
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Nov 17, 2007 5:31:51 GMT
sorry updating the feats now and yes those are +12 stats lol I always max the stats sorry. Picked rogue for umd and tumble (dumped a few in umd with bard song can use most scrolls).. going to update feats now...
|
|
|
Post by tyranlthixis on Nov 18, 2007 20:50:38 GMT
Well did some testing with this build. I guess I have a few issues that have more to do with my playstyle and what I like to party with than "viability". The build can survive very well.
Offensively though you're sitting mid to low 80's AB dualing (90ish single wielding). There is no way you're getting into the 90's on log AB (maybe sheet AB but that lies). My problem with that is that 130's AC with optimum gear would be plenty for a build like this. You don't need all that wisdom AC. Its a waste imo. You could have put so much more into your strength and be sitting in the low 90's dualing (in log not on sheet) and actually have a decent chance of hitting with all your attacks. Not to mention you're missing crit immune with only 38 base strength :/.
The other issue is the second you demi your ranger your AB will drop into the 70's dualing because of double demi penalties, which is not enough to be a decent damage machine (which is what a ranger should be imho).
Tyran
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Nov 18, 2007 22:15:39 GMT
well the reason I went so high on ac is that this is a str tank that 'has' to wear light armor. That means a really low phys immunes. at 144 ac (bard song, gird, and improv expertise) I find tanking hell bosses not so scary (who needs crit immune if they can't hit you) though as you pointed on once I 'do' get demi I will have crit immune as well yes?
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Nov 18, 2007 22:15:58 GMT
as well as 2 more ac
|
|
|
Post by Tom Schreib on Nov 18, 2007 23:42:36 GMT
Once you go Demi you can not Duel Wielding and still hit most mosters in hell. So you might as well wear heavy armor at the point and single Wiel.
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Nov 19, 2007 0:53:18 GMT
bard song does not compensate? and heavy armor would lower your ac so there is no point in it
|
|
|
Post by tyranlthixis on Nov 19, 2007 2:29:12 GMT
Yes more ac, but there comes a point for where adding more ac becomes pretty pointless. Plus, you have buffs like mass camo that make your effective AC better than it looks on paper. That 2 ac isn't going to make a noticable difference to your character. The monsters that are only hitting you on a 20 are still only hitting you on a 20. Its like building a character with a 75 fort save and then taking legendary fort. Looks good on paper but what does it really do for you?
On the other hand moving your AB up even 5 points will nearly double your offensive output. You'll be hitting in the middle of your AB progression instead of just the top of it.
Bard song won't help. When I demi'd my barbarian Moonbeam and saw my new hells AB I almost cried and he's around 97 AB on the log outside of the hells. Tyran
|
|
|
Post by Lythe Featherblade on Nov 19, 2007 2:50:15 GMT
All things considered..
after you get demi you can wear strongheart, so you'll be even better at tanking
you can always put a smaller weapon in offhand to offset some penalties and hit a little easier with main
I'm sure with the groups you're in it won't be a problem to succor in for the boss mobs if demi penalties do become too much
And in the end, +4 ac from double demi, +4ac from strongheart, tanking dex and str mobs no problem, +1 more ac if you decide on dex or on wis arti, and improved expertiese almost becomes a waste of 2 feats, and the end result is worth the extra effort, and makes you actually have something to look forward to when you already have most of the good items and have seen all of the game. I'm working on a different ranger str build, but with the same growth potential via demi/double, making me wish I had the time you do for the big runs.
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Nov 21, 2007 1:25:39 GMT
umm as for my ab I checked the logs on my mala run the other day (mala tagged by the way woot!) and on sheet was 96 buffed ab and on the attack rolls 95. That is pleeenty to kill stuffs with (was in boss fight and didn't want to take screenie to prove and crash my comp... yes my comp is that old and sucky. but this is not a contest on who is cooler so I didn't think it was 'really' neccessary to prove)
|
|
|
Post by tyranlthixis on Nov 21, 2007 20:34:27 GMT
Well we did some testing. With a ranger with 8 more strength than you and same amount of weapon master levels and level progression. You should be 4 AB behind that character. Basically with your mundane AB, against non favored enemies, your ab should be just as I said it was dualing. What we were surprised to find, however, is that favored enemy was adding more than the 2 ab its supposed to add against favored enemies (a possible bug?). I was testing verse a human target originally. This time we tried human and an outsider. We also found that the haste attack was ignoring dualing penalties (medium size vs medium weapon) making that even more pronounced. Smells like another bug to me. Even with all that considered your numbers seem too high compared to what I was seeing. Especially if you were in the hells with all its penalties. Somethings else is wrong. Maybe the haste attack is ignoring hells pens as well? I really need to test this but we need to go to Indiana soon. The fact remains though there's something very wrong when a ranger with a pre epic rogue level, while dualing medium weapons, and with 38 base strength has the same ab as my new barbarian with 12 more base strength, all top tier pre-epic levels, and single wielding a weapon....and more ab than him in the hells (he has 96 ab fully maxed outside the hells).
Tyran
|
|