Post by flay on Aug 13, 2009 21:38:42 GMT
This is an attempt at making a new pure rogue with higher damage output since recent changes. I went for dual wielding and clockwork boots for 3 extra attacks, thus 7 in total.
Before double demi, I would recommend replacing weapon focus, epic, and legendary focus short sword for: shield proficiency, ESF Listen, ESF Disable Trap. Before double demi, int is not high enough to disable traps without ESF. The upcoming weapon changes should make short swords into slash/pierce weapons. Saps are a good choice for blunt dmg since they are unslaggable. Having 4 weapons to buff would be frowned upon by casters, so using a sap in main hand and short sword in off-hand would make asking for buffs easier, and the main/off hand weapons can be switched according to the enemy being attacked based on its physical weakness, since the main hand will have 5 attacks and the off hand only 2. While leveling and before demi, having the possibility of switching to a shield will make things much easier.
This build can be adapted with other subraces but I liked the half-fiend version best.
Hopefully we'll see some more rogue changes soon, until then I don't see how to make a higher damage output rogue and still maintain minimum decency with AC and saves. I don't expect this version to have stellar damage output either, and survivability is also an issue with mediocre AC and no shield prof without getting it from gear.
Human
Half-Fiend
Pure Rogue
Ability Scores (before/after half-fiend)
Str 14
Dex 18/24
Con 10/14
Wis 8/6
Int 14/18
Cha 8/6
All level ability score increases go in dexterity.
Racials
Strider, SR: 10+1/lvl, +6 Hide/Move Silently
Pre-Epic Feats
Bullheaded (level 1 feat)
Strong Soul (level 1 feat)
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus (club/sap)
Shield Proficiency / Weapon Focus (short sword)
Ambidexterity
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Epic Feats
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus (club/sap)
ESF Disable Trap / Epic Weapon Focus (short sword)
Epic Prowess
Great Fort
Iron Will
Great Dex 1
Rogue Pre-Epic Feats
Defensive Roll
Improved Evasion
Crippling Strike
Opportunist
Rogue Epic Feats
Epic Dodge
Slippery Mind
Skill Mastery
ESF Search
ESF Discipline
Legendary Feats
LSA Discipline
Legendary Soul
Legendary Weapon Focus (club/sap)
ESF Listen / Legendary Weapon Focus (short sword)
Legendary Fort
Legendary Will
Great Dex 2
Skills (895 skill points)
Level 1: 44 skill points
Level 2 to 60: 708 skill points
Human: 63 skill points
Legendary Rogue: 80 skill points
1. Appraise (extra skill points at 60)
2. Concentration 31 (cross-class at level 60)
3. Craft Armor 63
4. Craft Weapon 63
5. Disable Trap 63
6. Discipline 63 (20 ranks at level 40 for ESF)
7. Hide 63 (6 base from subrace)
8. Listen 63
9. Open Lock 63
10. Parry 63
11. Pick Pocket 63
12. Search 63
13. Set Trap 5
14. Tumble 63
15. Use Magic Device 63
Dex Artifact
Sneak Attack Pandect
Saving Throws
Fort 64
Ref 74
Will 61 (65 with dim mak)
Dex: 24 + 2 feats + 20 levels + 4 rogue + 12 gear + 2 artifact = 64 (+27) / 66 (+28) with +14 dex
AB: 15 bab + 28 dex + 4 base int + 7 feats + 10 epic + 12 LL + 20 enh + 2 craft weapon -2 twf = 96
AC: 123 dual weilding / 125 with gird
After double demi:
AB: 100
AC: 128 dual weilding / 130 with gird
Saving Throws
Fort 66
Ref 76
Will 63 (67 with dim mak)
Gear setup after demi:
To Reign in Hell
Gauntlets of Transposed Energy
Robes of the Dim Mak Master
Ainafea's Masterwork Belt
Spectre's Necklace
Corruption
Clockwork Boots
Discipline and listen should cap out after a +20 song. A few other skills should be close to caping out. There is some overlap in resistances between dim mak and corruption, but with the randomness of the gear having two sets of elemental resistances can be handy, and these items both have dex and wis also. Str is on the gauntlets, so str, dex, and wis all have the potential for +14. Being able to self-buff with uef is handy with the +10 dodge clockwork boots.
Open Lock: 63 ranks + 29 dex double demi + 50 gear/song = 142/127 (15 over, open lock can be lowered if more appraise is wanted)
Disable Trap: 63 ranks + 12 int double demi + 50 gear/song + 2 set trap synergy = 127/127
Search: 63 ranks + 12 int double demi + 50/gear song + 10 ESF = 135/127 (8 over, search can be lowered if more appraise is wanted)
Open lock should be 48 and Search 55 after double demi. Finding items or augments with skill focus: open lock, disable trap, and/or search would change these numbers, and in the case of search would make ESF Search obsolete (replace with ESF Listen). The dex and int in these calculations is assumed to be with +12 buffs, and includes the dex artifact.
Before double demi, I would recommend replacing weapon focus, epic, and legendary focus short sword for: shield proficiency, ESF Listen, ESF Disable Trap. Before double demi, int is not high enough to disable traps without ESF. The upcoming weapon changes should make short swords into slash/pierce weapons. Saps are a good choice for blunt dmg since they are unslaggable. Having 4 weapons to buff would be frowned upon by casters, so using a sap in main hand and short sword in off-hand would make asking for buffs easier, and the main/off hand weapons can be switched according to the enemy being attacked based on its physical weakness, since the main hand will have 5 attacks and the off hand only 2. While leveling and before demi, having the possibility of switching to a shield will make things much easier.
This build can be adapted with other subraces but I liked the half-fiend version best.
Hopefully we'll see some more rogue changes soon, until then I don't see how to make a higher damage output rogue and still maintain minimum decency with AC and saves. I don't expect this version to have stellar damage output either, and survivability is also an issue with mediocre AC and no shield prof without getting it from gear.
Human
Half-Fiend
Pure Rogue
Ability Scores (before/after half-fiend)
Str 14
Dex 18/24
Con 10/14
Wis 8/6
Int 14/18
Cha 8/6
All level ability score increases go in dexterity.
Racials
Strider, SR: 10+1/lvl, +6 Hide/Move Silently
Pre-Epic Feats
Bullheaded (level 1 feat)
Strong Soul (level 1 feat)
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus (club/sap)
Shield Proficiency / Weapon Focus (short sword)
Ambidexterity
Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Epic Feats
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus (club/sap)
ESF Disable Trap / Epic Weapon Focus (short sword)
Epic Prowess
Great Fort
Iron Will
Great Dex 1
Rogue Pre-Epic Feats
Defensive Roll
Improved Evasion
Crippling Strike
Opportunist
Rogue Epic Feats
Epic Dodge
Slippery Mind
Skill Mastery
ESF Search
ESF Discipline
Legendary Feats
LSA Discipline
Legendary Soul
Legendary Weapon Focus (club/sap)
ESF Listen / Legendary Weapon Focus (short sword)
Legendary Fort
Legendary Will
Great Dex 2
Skills (895 skill points)
Level 1: 44 skill points
Level 2 to 60: 708 skill points
Human: 63 skill points
Legendary Rogue: 80 skill points
1. Appraise (extra skill points at 60)
2. Concentration 31 (cross-class at level 60)
3. Craft Armor 63
4. Craft Weapon 63
5. Disable Trap 63
6. Discipline 63 (20 ranks at level 40 for ESF)
7. Hide 63 (6 base from subrace)
8. Listen 63
9. Open Lock 63
10. Parry 63
11. Pick Pocket 63
12. Search 63
13. Set Trap 5
14. Tumble 63
15. Use Magic Device 63
Dex Artifact
Sneak Attack Pandect
Saving Throws
Fort 64
Ref 74
Will 61 (65 with dim mak)
Dex: 24 + 2 feats + 20 levels + 4 rogue + 12 gear + 2 artifact = 64 (+27) / 66 (+28) with +14 dex
AB: 15 bab + 28 dex + 4 base int + 7 feats + 10 epic + 12 LL + 20 enh + 2 craft weapon -2 twf = 96
AC: 123 dual weilding / 125 with gird
After double demi:
AB: 100
AC: 128 dual weilding / 130 with gird
Saving Throws
Fort 66
Ref 76
Will 63 (67 with dim mak)
Gear setup after demi:
To Reign in Hell
Gauntlets of Transposed Energy
Robes of the Dim Mak Master
Ainafea's Masterwork Belt
Spectre's Necklace
Corruption
Clockwork Boots
Discipline and listen should cap out after a +20 song. A few other skills should be close to caping out. There is some overlap in resistances between dim mak and corruption, but with the randomness of the gear having two sets of elemental resistances can be handy, and these items both have dex and wis also. Str is on the gauntlets, so str, dex, and wis all have the potential for +14. Being able to self-buff with uef is handy with the +10 dodge clockwork boots.
Open Lock: 63 ranks + 29 dex double demi + 50 gear/song = 142/127 (15 over, open lock can be lowered if more appraise is wanted)
Disable Trap: 63 ranks + 12 int double demi + 50 gear/song + 2 set trap synergy = 127/127
Search: 63 ranks + 12 int double demi + 50/gear song + 10 ESF = 135/127 (8 over, search can be lowered if more appraise is wanted)
Open lock should be 48 and Search 55 after double demi. Finding items or augments with skill focus: open lock, disable trap, and/or search would change these numbers, and in the case of search would make ESF Search obsolete (replace with ESF Listen). The dex and int in these calculations is assumed to be with +12 buffs, and includes the dex artifact.