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Post by anthrak on Apr 24, 2009 7:41:16 GMT
This is my first attempt at making a build. I am reincarnating my current Sorceror. Your opinions are valued. Thanks!
This is a modified Reptilian MageSlayer builds. Credit to tyranlthixis
Base Race: Gnome -2 str +2 con Spell Focus Illusion +2 Skill pts / level Subrace: Chaos Gnome +2 dex +4 char SR 15+1/lvl, Spell Focus Enchantment / Curse Song Alignment: Lawful Good
Statistics Strength 6 Constitution 16 Dexterity 12(14) Wisdom 8(8) Intelligence 12 Charisma 18(22)
All Stat Points to Charisma Skills Max Concentration and Lore (save rest for level 40) @ Level 40 Max Discipline
Level Progression 1-39 Sorcerer 40 Paladin
Pre-Epic Feats (not in any particular order) Spell Penetration Spell Focus (evoc) Spell Focus (necro) Greater Spell Focus (evoc) Greater Spell Focus (illusion) Greater Spell Focus (necro) Greater Spell Penetration
Epic Feats (not in any particular order) Metamagic Extend Epic Spell Focus (illusion) Epic Spell Focus (evocation) Epic Spell Focus (necro) Epic Spell Penetration Greater Charisma 1 through 8
Statistics @40 Strength 6 Constitution 16 Dexterity 14 Wisdom 8 Intelligence 12 Charisma 40
Saves Fortitude 34 Reflex 33 Will 36
Skills Lore 43 Discipline 43 Concentration 43
Legendary Levels An additional 80 skill points become available from the Gnome race.
@ Level 41+ Read a book of Epic Transmutation
Legendary Feats Legendary Spell Focus (illusion) Legendary Spell Focus (necro) Legendary Spell Focus (trans) Legendary Spell Penetration Greater Charisma 9 & 10 MetaMagic Empower Spell
Statistics @60 Strength 6 Constitution 16 Dexterity 12 Wisdom 8 Intelligence 12 Charisma 52
Saves Fortitude 45 Reflex 44 Will 47
Skills
Lore 63 Discipline 43 Concentration 63 Craft Armor 63 Tumble 30
17 skill points into whatever (Listen?)
Spells:
lvl 1 spells: Endure Elements Expeditious Retreat Burning Hands Ice Dagger Ray of Enfeeblement
lvl 2 spells: Ghostly Visage Flame Weapon Darkness Balagarns Iron Horn Combust
lvl 3 spells: Gust of Wind Greater Magic Weapon Displacement Negative Energy Burst
lvl 4 spells: Enervation Wall of Fire Lesser Spell Breach Elemental Shield
lvl 5 spells: Energy Buffer Lesser Mind Blank Lesser Spell Mantle Bigby's Interposing Hand
lvl 6 spells: Ethereal Visage Disintegrate Flesh to Stone
lvl 7 spells: Finger of Death Bigsby's Grasping Hand Banishment (chose this mainly for aboleth/elysium)
lvl 8 spells: Bigby's Clenched Fist Premonition Horrid Wilting (chose this mainly for aboleth/elysium)
lvl 9 spells: Bigby's Crushing Hand Weird Energy Drain
Thanks in advance!
Anthrak aka Ehkelebreth
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Post by Rain on Apr 24, 2009 11:14:46 GMT
You have spellcraft but no Greater Ruin? Drop toughness for Greater Ruin might be a better choice. Or, drop Max spell + Toughness for Greater Cha 9-10. this way drop spellcraft for craft armor or lore instead.
As for spell choice, if ur focus'ed on LL areas ie. when ur lvling before lvl 60, i think it's ok. but for hell, u can drop meteor swarm for energy drain for example.
Here's my spellbook on my sorcerer. hope it helps. ( i'm aiming her on mainly hell/aboleth/elysium and i have exactly the same school foci as yours.)
lvl 1 spells: Endure Elements Expeditious Retreat Horizikauls Boom Ice Dagger Ray of Enfeeblement
lvl 2 spells: Ghostly Visage Flame Weapon Darkness (chose this for elysium) Balagarns Iron Horn Combust
lvl 3 spells: Gust of Wind Mestils Acid Breath Displacement Negative Energy Burst
lvl 4 spells: Enervation Bestow Curse (chose this mainly to remove the maze curse in aboleth) Remove Curse Evards Black Tentacles (chose this for counterspell in aboleth since i wonot have mord or greater dispelling on this sorcerer)
lvl 5 spells: Energy Buffer Lesser Mind Blank Lesser Spell Mantle Bigby's Interposing Hand
lvl 6 spells: Ethereal Visage Disintegrate Flesh to Stone
lvl 7 spells: Finger of Death Bigsby's Grasping Hand Banishment (chose this mainly for aboleth/elysium)
lvl 8 spells: Bigby's Clenched Fist Premonition Horrid Wilting (chose this mainly for aboleth/elysium)
lvl 9 spells: Bigby's Crushing Hand Weird Energy Drain
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Post by maxekist on Apr 24, 2009 17:30:36 GMT
Hello Anthrak, Having myself played a sorcerer through 2x demigod as my first hell character, I know what you are going through After having tons of different spell selections, i have probably found what, for me, would be my optimal spell list.
It looks like Rain's selection a lot, but some things are changed, so I will go over Rain's selection and write the changes I would make for a first sorcerer you would possibly plan on bringing to hell, as Rain's build is, in my opinion, a build for a demigod caster, played by a player that has seen much in his career (And believe me, after seeing Rain in hell runs, he's a really good player)
These spell selections are mine for a Hells sorcerer. The only spell I picked for other areas is Banishment, because there is no third valuable spell except this one at level 7. This is a personal choice as I don't plan on bringing this character to Aboleths and Elysium any time soon because these are too time-consuming for me.
lvl 1 spells: Endure Elements Expeditious Retreat
Horizikauls Boom - Burning hands is a necessity for opening epic walls to only let one entrance Ice Dagger
Ray of Enfeeblement - Grease - more for low levels, not a big difference between both
lvl 2 spells: Ghostly Visage Flame Weapon
Darkness - I went with Cloud of Bewilderment, but not an issue
Balagarns Iron Horn - Melf's acid arrow, not an issue either. Combust
lvl 3 spells: Gust of Wind
Mestils Acid Breath - Greater Magic Weapon - It is usually not a sorcerer's job, but it is really helpful for a little bit of versatility (especially with chaos gnome, having a free SF enchant that will give +11) Displacement
Negative Energy Burst - Displacement, same reasons as GMW
lvl 4 spells: Enervation
Bestow Curse - I went with Lesser Spell Breach. It is really useful to breach Rajas to have a fast breach spell handy.
Remove Curse - Wall of Fire - I must say I haven't used this in a while, but it can be useful, there's no doubt.
Evards Black Tentacles - Elemental Shield - Useful for the elemental immunity. However, you must be really careful in tougher areas for party kickback with those shields spells.
lvl 5 spells: Energy Buffer Lesser Mind Blank Lesser Spell Mantle (Empower this)
Bigby's Interposing Hand - I went with Firebrand , only for some versatility when it comes to lesser areas. Interposing hand is also a good option, i might switch to it next reinc
lvl 6 spells: These you need to have. A good tactic in hells is using energy drain on machines, and then disintegrating them. It works just fine, and then you don't need an imploder at all. Flesh to stone is the bomb in crowd control. Much better than lvl 6 bigby. Ethereal Visage Disintegrate Flesh to Stone
lvl 7 spells: Finger of Death Bigsby's Grasping Hand Banishment
lvl 8 spells: Bigby's Clenched Fist Premonition
Horrid Wilting - I would strongly recommend Greater Sanctuary for a newer player. Rain doesnt need it cause the Demigod store sells potions, but I recommend GS.
lvl 9 spells: Bigby's Crushing Hand Weird Energy Drain
However, your spell selection isn't bad at all, but it is really focused on legendary levels. I would keep the level 7-8-9 selection at least until you are ready to enter Hells, and change at this point.
The biggest problem, I think, is your subrace choice. Chaos gnome isn't really a good choice for a sorcerer, I would say. The main reason is the lack of useful feats for this build. Going with Shade (secret subrace) would bring you more advantages:
1. You wouldn't be a small character (and that is the most important point). With a small character, you cannot use dachy/tia sorcerer staves, you must use small character versions (codex for dachy, and i doubt it exists for Tia) which is an issue as we barely ever see those.
2. Spell Focus Necromancy, Spell penetration. Those two feats are useful for you, and are there in your build anyway.
Of course, you get 2 less charisma, which you can get back with 2 more great charisma from those two feats you have bonus. However, I wouldn't suggest that.
I would go for Epic Spell : Greater Ruin and Empower Spell. I would probably let go Maximize and Legendary Spell Focus Evocation for 2 greater charisma.
In any case, empower is more useful than Maximize. With those changes, you would keep the same charisma as the build you made, with 1 less LSF, which is not needed to land hands anyway, and no Maximize, but empower.
There is no UR race version of a good sorcerer race. Sure the gnome part gives you skill points, but only in legendary levels, which means you can't throw them in both tumble and discipline, which are both good to have. I would go with +2 int to get enough skill points to splash tumble and disc on the paladin level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 18:03:35 GMT
This is a solid sorceror build but with 62 charisma your going to struggle landing DC based spells.
With a UR sub-race you need every bit of help you can get to be effective in my opinion.
Go pure, drop LSF Evo to ESF and replace Max and Toughness with great charisma IX and X to maximize your charisma to 64.
That will be an increase of 2 DC on all your spells (one from charisma and one from the bonus channeling you get as a pure sorc). For a mob that failed a DC save on a roll of 1 or 2 (quite likely with a 62 charisma) you'll improve your chances of a failed save to 1 through 4 which is a 100% increase in your effectiveness as a mage.
You are probably not flush with Tia gear so you need every spell slot to count and you won't be able to channel much to make up for it. Pure sorceror will also significantly up your spell penetration - another way to make up for lower casting stats. You'll gain two points of spell penetration over the splash build and could get to 70 spell pen with the BUR robes. This is a huge proportional differential.
A pure 64 sorc is still going to struggle to land to disintegrate on most hell mobs unless they have been very heavily debuffed compared to a 2xD+ sorc with 70 or 72 charisma. You may wish to focus on spells that don't rely on DC or have a bonus to DC - flesh to stone is a good one.
There are no perfect UR subraces for a sorceror but Chaos Gnome is a decent choice. The bonus dex and con are nice.
Small caster gear is plentiful and fantastic. The Dachy codex is decent. The Sussrus of Sorcere is one of the best UR items in the game (find someone who can use it and is able to cast level 8 cleric spells into the sequencer on it - another trick to keep your spells effective). Once you get to Hell you'll find the Stygia fan in much less demand than the Tia staff and it's almost as good.
Saves are over rated. You are not going to be in the front lines and you have LSF Illusion and Ghostly Visage which is a no cool down greater sanctuary for troublesome moments.
-silver
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Post by simpetar on Apr 24, 2009 18:38:05 GMT
A minor note: if you really must go with Toughness (which I would not recommend for reasons already said), make sure you take the feat BEFORE LLs. Otherwise, it will not work correctly.
cheers simpetar
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Post by Talamanthalon on Apr 24, 2009 19:24:24 GMT
As a side note:
Demi on my wizard and I've found that instead of tying up spell slots for opening walls, I just carry half a stack to a stack of burning hands / acid breath scrolls and they work just as well for punching a single person hole in the wall. GV + scroll + GV to get out. Helps free up space in the spellbook. For what it's worth.
In addition to this, I used to use it and load it up with Tenser's. This helped to free up spell slots and helped me with my survivability in hells. I took a Drow Wizard (CON -3) through layer 5 of hell and this helped me to stay alive, ALOT.
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Post by maxekist on Apr 24, 2009 19:27:16 GMT
Being a sorcerer, spellbook is not an issue, and being a level 1 spell when using burning hands, it is not a big deal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2009 21:34:02 GMT
Although if you have LSF Necro and can land the spell (it's level 1 so DC will be 5-8 points off of optimum) then Ray of Enfeeblement is a fantastic debuff spell book choice for a demi sorceror with very high charisma.
Ray of Enfeeblement - Does 1d6 + CL Str damage, to a maximum of 1d6 + 11. - At CL21, does 1d6 + ((CL - 22) / 2) Con damage, to a maximum of 1d6 + 5. - At CL41, does 1d6 + ((CL - 42) / 2) Dex damage, to a maximum of 1d6 + 5
Drops AB, fort and AC!
Which is a good deal more valuable than burning hands or metil's acid breath which can both be crafted on a wand for high speed use.
I would agree though that for a UR based sorceror Ray of Enfeeblement is probably not the best use of a slot.
-silver
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Post by anthrak on Apr 25, 2009 4:37:08 GMT
Wow everyone thanks for all the feedback. I have taken my previous Sorcerer through the 3rd level of hell I'm hoping to go further. I realize I need a BUR, but double BUR for the reincarnate is tough and Rad Gen seems impossilbe (it is my in game dream item and I'd redo the XP to get there). Hopefully this will get me a little further and some chances at better gear.
Here is my take away from the advice:
Drop Max and Tough Pick up 2 more Charisma
Take a look at spells and mix between the two suggestions depending on play style.
Drop Spellcraft and pick up craft armor
Drop Paly and go pure (so do I forgoe Discipline altogher or cross skill as much as I can or cross skill tumble?)
Thanks!
Anthrak
PS: Got an extra Rad Gen? Don't have much but you are welcome to it for trade!!
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Post by Rain on Apr 25, 2009 5:15:06 GMT
DC is very important on a mage cuz most spells are DC based.( i know there're a few mage players using mostly bigby only so that's another case) Maxing DC is very important no matter u use UR subby or BUR. with curse song, cleric battletide, prayer, wail of doom, that extra 1 or 2 DC does make a differernce tbh.
As for craft armor, i took it on my sorcerer cuz every single AC helps (my ac with double demi status is 126 with cleric's girding, bard song and asmo shield). i have 30 points in tumble as a crossclass skill, 16 base dex(with subby +2 dex bonus). anyway, the 85%concealment is the biggie for a mage's defense mostly. and do remember to use channel when u buff urself so even if ur not pure u can still get a lvl 60 CL buffs like 85%concealment.
Going pure or not is personal taste. extra CL, DC is nice(though still u canot channel past 3), but paladin +30 or so universal saves is tasty as well as 10 more discipline.
About spell choice, max's spellbook might be better for you since most likely you wonot visit elysium/aboleth during a long time playing your sorcerer. but still i wanna mention something for my spell choice since i know there're quite a few sorcerer players wanting to join ely/abo.
1>.Ray of Enfeeblement: dropping con/dex not only drops fortitude/reflex but like druid's Infestation of maggot(IoM) once a monster's status drops to 0, they die. although i never used this spell much since ED is a better one, i still found its use in aboleth to help druid land IoM.
2>. Mestil's Acid Breath: i use this spell to break my epic wall or any block in the way. it can be used to counterspell aboleth's acid breath as well. i need a spell to do acid damage as well so that's why i chose it over burning hand.
3>. Bigby's Interposing Hand: this spell i use pretty much especially on all the mini-bosses, bosses and all the tough paragons and on all the Ichors of Fallen, Brood Serpent too. -10ab really helps a lot for the whole party.
4>. Less spell mantle: as max said, use this on ur lvl 7 spell slots as empowered. this saves u choosing a lvl 7 version spell mantle.
5>. Less mind blank: like mind blank but it's a single target. note since u have CL41+, this works even if ur stunned/dazed/confused by hell/ely/abo monsters although it'll be gone after it absorbs one of the stun/daze/confuse. it can cure ppl of these effects as well.
My sorcerer spells are mostly chosen to be effective in hell/ely/abo so if i want to play on LL areas, i'd always prefer to play my wizard. like in a pyramid, i'm sure my sorcerer gonna have a hard time there being a mass killer.
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Post by anthrak on Apr 28, 2009 5:08:40 GMT
I made some modifications to the build. I kept the Paly splash because I think I need it for the shield feat. Made some changes to the spell list as well. I dropped Spellcraft for Lore and I think I can only cross class train tumble to 30 with the build.
Anthrak aka Ehkelebreth
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