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Post by TZ- on Jul 23, 2011 20:40:09 GMT
I saw a kobold sorcerer running around and was thinking "What the hell is that guy thinking? A small sorcerer with no charisma boost?". So I was thinking about how you could manage this and still be a contributor to a party with 3 DC off max pure sorcerer with radiance genasi. This is what I came up with, let me know what you guys think. This is for anyone to use, old or new, just for the fun of playing a kobold character, and think I might level it myself!
Human - Kobold STR: 08 DEX: 12 CON: 14 WIS: 08 INT: 12 CHA: 18
40 Sorcerer
Read Spell Penetration Book
Max Concentration Max Lore Max Craft Armor 30 to Tumble
Pre-Epic Feats:
01: Spell Focus Transmutation 01: Greater Spell Focus Transmutation 03: Spell Focus Evocation 06: Spell Focus Conjuration 09: Greater Spell Focus Conjuration 12: Greater Spell Focus Evocation 15: Metamagic (Extend Spell) 18: Metamagic (Empower Spell)
Epic Feats:
21: Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration 23: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation 24: Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation 26: Great Charisma I 27: Great Charisma II 29: Great Charisma III 30: Great Charisma IV 32: Great Charisma V 33: Great Charisma VI 35: Great Charisma VII 36: Great Charisma VIII 38: Great Charisma IX 39: Great Charisma X
Legendary Feats:
42: Legendary Spell Penetration 45: Legendary Spell Focus Evocation 48: Legendary Spell Focus Conjuration 51: Legendary Spell Focus Transmutation 54: Epic Spell Known (6) 57: Epic Spell Known (7) 60: Epic Spell Known (9)
Spell Choices:
lvl 1 spells: Endure Elements Expeditious Retreat Grease Protection from alignment Ice Dagger Horizikauls Boom
lvl 2 spells: Ghostly Visage Flame Weapon Shock Weapon Darkness Combust Melf's Acid Arrow
lvl 3 spells: Gust of Wind Keen Edge Mestils Acid Breath Displacement Clarity
lvl 4 spells: Evards Black Tentacles Orb: Electricity Orb: Sonic Elemental Shield Remove Curse
lvl 5 spells: Energy Buffer Freezing Fog Lesser Spell Mantle Vitriolic Sphere Bigby interposing hand
lvl 6 spells: Ethereal Visage Freezing Sphere Chain Lightning Disintegrate Acid Fog (Extra Spell Known 6)
lvl 7 spells: Greater Orb: Cold Greater Orb: Acid Greater Orb: Fire Thunderclap Delayed Blast Fireball (Extra Spell Known 7)
lvl 8 spells: Incendiary Cloud Premonition Sunburst Greater Sanctuary
lvl 9 spells: Gate Mordenkain's Disjunction Weird Bigby's Crushing Hand Meteor Swarm (Extra Spell Known 9)
What do you guys think? Thanks to Rain for the spell selection, I did edit it a bit, however.
TZ-
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Post by Yojimbo on Jul 25, 2011 12:58:22 GMT
My first question is why Transmutation? The epic is nice and handy but I would have considered Illusion myself mostly for the boost to EV conceal. My only real comment would be for someone leveling this toon to trade out a focus for spell penetration feats and pick up one focus from a book. You won't be able to do much if you can't beat the targets SR.
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Post by the1kobra on Jul 25, 2011 21:37:14 GMT
Recommended edits:
1: Maximize spell. You want it. I'd sub out extend spell. 2: I'd drop STR by 2, increase INT by 2, Use the extra skill points to get spellcraft. (You might also try and grab greater ruin) 3: Lastly, I'd -strongly- consider dropping one of the extra spells and picking up ESF Lore. 63+8+50 = 121, which hits the lore cap, but might not do so entirely smoothly. The extra 10 lore would be nice for a caster that's so focused on direct damage.
4: I'd recommend dropping elemental shield for orb of force. I know magic isn't boosted by lore but being able to deal out magic damage may be useful in some circumstances.
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jun 14, 2014 11:49:11 GMT
I am thinking to try this build with Atomie subrace, for a little boost of charisma, int, and dex. However it is a old build, so I am not sure if it would still work well. I would probably change a couple spell known feats for max spell, and epic skill focus lore. I am thinking, for paragon feats, I would take PSF and PSK for each of the 3 schools. However that would mean no paragon spell penetration. Would that work ok, or should I leave out one of the PSK and PSK feats?
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jun 14, 2014 15:58:15 GMT
Honestly, if you're going for damage, Rose, you might be better off trying a wizard build. Though, the problem with that is wizards just require a sheer plenitude of knowledge of the mod (in order to know what spells to load into your spellbook for what run etc) and might be better for later. In regards to your question, I wouldn't go without paragon spell penetration. Spell penetration is probably your most important stat on any caster and it's just plain hard to go without maxing it.
My advice is, since you already have a level 60 toon, why not just wait til you're able to find/trade for a Radiance Genasi book and then go ahead and start a fresh BUR-subby sorcerer? If you're going to have a "core" caster, people are going to have certain expectations of your build on higher level runs, and it's a bit more difficult to include all of those things without an optimal subrace. Just a thought, of course. You can still make an effective sorcerer without Rad Gen, of course, but it seems like it might just be better to wait a little bit, work on your highest level toon for a while and then, once you have all the subraces and gear for your planned sorcerer, go ahead and make it the best it can be.
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jun 14, 2014 17:56:48 GMT
Honestly, if you're going for damage, Rose, you might be better off trying a wizard build. Though, the problem with that is wizards just require a sheer plenitude of knowledge of the mod (in order to know what spells to load into your spellbook for what run etc) and might be better for later. In regards to your question, I wouldn't go without paragon spell penetration. Spell penetration is probably your most important stat on any caster and it's just plain hard to go without maxing it. My advice is, since you already have a level 60 toon, why not just wait til you're able to find/trade for a Radiance Genasi book and then go ahead and start a fresh BUR-subby sorcerer? If you're going to have a "core" caster, people are going to have certain expectations of your build on higher level runs, and it's a bit more difficult to include all of those things without an optimal subrace. Just a thought, of course. You can still make an effective sorcerer without Rad Gen, of course, but it seems like it might just be better to wait a little bit, work on your highest level toon for a while and then, once you have all the subraces and gear for your planned sorcerer, go ahead and make it the best it can be. Well, I am going to try it, with your suggestions for changes. I have seen many runs with more than one arcane build. This build still has a few death spells, which will be useful. It could take me forever to find a Radiance Genasi book, and I am wanting to have a few toons to play. If I find the book, I will make a new toon for it. Starting toons over again is nothing new for me, lol, and I enjoy playing low levels. I will still play my ranger, but there are many times when I am stuck playing alone because I do not have a toon to match other party's levels.
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Post by supaflytnt80 on Jun 14, 2014 22:44:51 GMT
I agree with Sem, PSP is not something you can do without. I would also look over the spell selection given in the original post. I don't agree with a lot of the spells there being necessary, for instance Greater Sanctuary.
I honestly think sorc builds are fairly straightforward. You make sure you get max SP, pick 3-4 spell foci (my sorcs take 4 foci and are feat tight), and nowadays you make sure one of those is evo so you can take karsus in paragon levels. The real trick comes in the spell selection. Depending on your foci and spell selection you can be really versatile on a given run. Anyway, my advice is to think about what you want to do with the sorc (damage, insta kills, disabling, etc) and build from there.
I wouldn't worry so much about subrace. I started here with a sorc and upgraded from open to UR and from there to BUR (half ela which I then reinc'd to rad gen once I got it). Just have fun.
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Post by chirality on Jun 15, 2014 17:27:47 GMT
This build is weak, comical, and old. Ask around ingame for help with acquiring Rak and you're well on your way (this secret race is the cream of the crop, and it's better than comparable UR subs even). Even Yaun-Ti (open) makes a perfectly acceptable sorc (in fact, better than any other open sub). Atomie would be an unattractive idea in my opinion (just like kobold...other than wanting to play a kobold, it's quite a joke to use kobold for a sorc). Sure, it has levi, but that's about the only benefit vs. anything else. Halfling is a quite poor choice for sorc base race. I'd even use Yaun-Ti over Atomie Why? Because despite the far more unflattering attribute modifiers, bonus class xp is quite nice, but most importantly, human gets +1 feat and isn't small sized, which is quite a dealbreaker for a mage (imho bleh). It might seem attractive to use a "higher-tier" sub with some fancy fluff on the side, but don't be mistaken about the importance of using the right subrace for the right job (that's why there's 500000 of them). Casters are limited by schools, which means they're directly limited by their feats (which also go to metamagic feats, and at least one of this is a must-have, and sorcs are short on pre-epic feats vs. wizards); the more foci feats you can squeeze in, the better. Despite advantages in tiny stat boosts to random tanky stats, lacking any caster-oriented bonuses (the province of subs intended for casters) is a big shame. And considering that sorc alone has the single most powerfully-perfect secret race for it (better, if only slightly, in min/max scorecard than any other secret for its respective class), it's a shame not to take advantage of. Anyway this build seems to be more of a funny exercise in playing a kobold at quite serious cost. For considering your 1st sorc you really should be reading some more recent and useful sorc builds for advice and a rough template to use. Like supa said, sorc build is all the same anyway, unless it's a crappy sorc. Good sorc should be virtually interchangeable, with just some personal differences of schools or spells known based on targeted zones and personal preference, but that said, this build is really bad. "damage sorc" in this context is at best a misnomer, and at worst a potentially misleading illusion for a new player; but regardless, it's something for lategame pros with multiple sorcs to specialize in for specialized aspect of ownage in well-arranged parties for endgame content. And it's also basically a thing of the past: unfortunately, the higher-population environment which allowed for the breeding and showcasing of specialized "DC" vs "Dmg" sorcs, simply doesn't exist any more, so (again, just imo) it's a serious mistake to shoot for a "dmg mage", especially for a new player's knowledge and equipment available. Anyway, back to this specific topic Handicapping a starter caster by going "all out damage" to focus on just 3 schools for "DC" while lacking illus and nec is really hard to stomach for me Just my opinion of course, but making a starter nub arcane (or any core caster) that lacks an important school is fail, and for an open sub sorc to have only these 3 schools, you'd be missing out on some serious fun and usefulness. Finally but most importantly, this spell list is quite bad, and for spells if nothing else, you should look at a more recent and more pro builder for tips (suggestion below ). If you're not interested in a splash, I totally understand, but I think you'd get something useful from reading Red Mage. I certainly wouldn't ever recommend ESF Lore, since it's a huge sacrifice (extremely important epic feat) for quite lame gain.
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jun 15, 2014 18:37:07 GMT
I will try the red mage build. Thank you for posting it.
I had looked at other builds, but they mostly all used radiance genasi subrace. I expect that it would take awhile before that book even becomes available as party loot.
I'll have to start my atomie mage over again, as I had taken conjuration focus at level 1. I still want to use atomie subrace, but if the others become available, I will upgrade. I know it is not the best subrace, but I love playing halflings, and the other choices involve appearance changes. Losing the offhand is not great, but I heard there are other items that are one-handed. I like the option of having wings, and not having to use a levitation ring. Being really fast also saves me a spell.
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Post by chirality on Jun 15, 2014 19:05:45 GMT
Those are good points and it's impressive clarity. Of course my rants are super munchkin oriented, and cynical (trollish), but despite how high-powered HG is, there's still plenty of room for "error" since it's a team game (just about anyone can complete most of the game content without trying very hard or having a very good toon). You're perfectly aware of the decisions at stake, so as long as that's understood, you can confidently choose a non uber toon and have fun with it. We all know looks and flavor and "style" (?) actually does make up a decent-sized part of enjoyment when you're staring at this character for hours on end (hence "ugly subrace" issues, and all that). It's true that all the means do exist for small casters (fashion accessories instead of staffs), so other than skepticism (they're a bit weaker, and lame to me), there's nothing wrong with it. Likewise, I totally agree about levitation (mainly laziness issue tbh)--for poor people especially, it's really nice to have. Anyway, all well said, and I like it.
Semner makes a good point about just waiting if you're patient, since you have a 60 toon now, so you may as well take advantage of that by trying some BUR sub toons (I assume by this he means, and I agree, keep playing your old toon, try to get on bur zone runs as your priority, progress through hells etc). At the same time, a sorc can be levelled (and progressed) extremely fast, and rad gen is pretty unrealistic notion to be quite honest (look at recent examples of people trying to trade for it).
I suggest red mage because flawless sorc builds are hard to find/non-existent (older good ones are outdated in some way, usually spells known), but, this one is it.
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jun 16, 2014 0:28:17 GMT
Well, I am still playing my level 62 ranger when there are hell runs, and hoping for some better books, but no luck yet, lol.
If there are runs for my level 48 bard, then I play her too.
If there are no runs, then I play my atomie sorc or brownie rogue.
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Post by kingcamaro on Jun 16, 2014 14:18:15 GMT
id advise you to make everything you ever make with brownie tbh. atleast when your future brownie sorcerer finally gets hold of a rad gen book, you don't have to wait for another book to upgrade it.
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Post by chirality on Jun 16, 2014 14:43:48 GMT
hopefully before then, the double book reinc cost will be removed (wasn't there some talk of this being Under Review?)
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jun 16, 2014 16:36:50 GMT
Better yet, make everything with that Half-Guardinal race you have. It does, after all, have a bonus to Charisma.
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jun 16, 2014 22:55:51 GMT
Better yet, make everything with that Half-Guardinal race you have. It does, after all, have a bonus to Charisma. Ah, I had not thought to use Half-Guardinal. It does offer a few nice things, like evasion, and an extra skill point, but it would mean losing my wings. I would make a new toon, but I am wanting to keep my atomie sorc, just for having wings, and for a few other reasons. I do not mind making new toons, but I do not like having to wait 24 hours to use the same name. I have noticed that another player had the exact same toon name as one of my toons, but if I want to delete my toon, and use the same name, I have to make a new name or wait 24 hours. That does not make much sense.
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