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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 11:53:52 GMT
The wiki is very clear and informative, but asking usually confirms or further clarifies the wiki. I am making a cha tank blackguard. It has 70 cha. I've never made a turner but checked it out just now out of curiosity. Tell me if I have this right: My BG is 50 BG, 9 pally and 1 splash. If I make it 9 pal and take 1 splash cleric levels + alignment domain + planar turning I will have: Turner Level: 140 Destruction Level: 57 (medium radius) 56 (huge radius) Turner Power 80. Total TR value of monsters equal to (turner level + Charisma modifier) * 3 = 270 ?? Are those numbers good relative to standard turners? Am I missing something? If it looks good (and so far it does) I might just make this thing a cha tank smiting turner. Note to self: planar turning requires 25 WIS. FA gets 5 off the bat. CHA at 70 at demix1 with GrtCha 8, wonder if taking less cha (getting it to 64 anyways), and putting the extra 6 into wis will do the trick.....5 from FA +4 double demi=9 so starting wis would have to be 14 at least....this toon has enough xp to take it at least into the first set of paragon level feats so planat turning could be taken then after the second reincarnation.... with 26 wis (40 after +14) am thinking of keeping the monk level and using robes for +15 ac bonus).....off to the lab.
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Post by tagnusd on Feb 16, 2012 12:41:11 GMT
Keep in mind,you can only take the first 2 domains before planar turning and can't select any more until after you have the planar turning feat, so you would essentially have evil/good and an elemental domain only I would assume.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 12:50:00 GMT
Gotcha- this isn't to be a true turner, but only to effectively turn and possibly destroy hells and abyss trash (outsiders). So I am looking at alignment domain + planar turning. An additional domain (destruction?) would be icing on the cake, but not really nescessary. If I am wrong, please correct me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 14:14:26 GMT
Most turners seem to turn once, cast battletide and prayer then turn again. I am wondering if lacking those two steps, this idea would still be at all effective? Otherwise I am looking at taking enough cleric levels to cast those steps + some additional buffs.
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Post by gandoron on Feb 16, 2012 14:58:32 GMT
I had a BG stunner tank, which was a lot of fun in hells. relatively effective tank with the ability to stun mobs at a very high level. with rapier wit, it opens up a lot of options.
I had to choose between 50 9 1 and 49 10 1, I chose the later to push the cleric level to lvl 40. I think this was for concentration splash and to max BAB, but not sure.
-G
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Post by redbeard on Feb 16, 2012 21:52:20 GMT
Demi bonuses don't help in getting the ability to cast higher level spells (17 Int before collecting + 2 demi bonus does not allow casting 9th level spells). I doubt that you can take planar turning without actually taking 25 "real" points in Wis.
I guess I'm assuming that you won't collect demi bonuses until after claiming all paragon levels.
My Palasmitturnerdin (39P.1CL) does a good job of turning mobs in Hades. It's good crowd control, but destroying them (after a prayer) is usually fishing for 1s. Ok, maybe not 1s, but not reliable destruction. I have to admit that gelugons and a couple other mobs sometimes cause a problem.
I can't report about Hells, because it seems every time I tried a hell run we either had someone casting clouds or there was a cleric turner with us.
Destruction domain has different rules for turning constructs. It does damage to the construct which might cause kickback. You also need spell pen. I'd recommend an elemental domain instead.
Hmmm. I think my pally needs to read a spell pen tome to improve his prayer and subscequent turning. I don't know of another worthwhile book for him.
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Post by Yojimbo on Feb 16, 2012 22:11:51 GMT
You can not use demi stat bonus as they won't be applied until after you take your final level during a reincarnation.
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Post by chirality on Feb 17, 2012 2:45:52 GMT
Yeah I'd also recommend another domain instead of Destruction...fairy specialized in use and application and probably not very effective without the CLs of a real turner. Then again it may be fine but I still agree with redbeard that an elemental domain for instance would be a wiser choice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2012 5:50:19 GMT
Thanks for the replies. Demi stat bonuses can be used after reincarnation. For example- base wis 23 before demi bonuses, reincarnated w bonuses = base wis 25. Three weeks later paragon levels comes out and enough xp is present to level up to the first set of feats. Planar Turning is taken at that time. If I am wrong, pls let me know. Looking further into it, definitely elemental over destruction.
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Post by Yojimbo on Feb 17, 2012 13:48:25 GMT
That may work then but after paragon levels if you reinc when do they return your demi bonus L60 or L80/Highest Level? I suspect in order to prevent exploits, exactly like the one your aiming for, it might be made to only grant the bonus at highest level meaning a reinc after Paragon levels drop will be broken.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2012 15:39:28 GMT
I was thinking reincarnation prior to paragon levels drop, so the stat bonus would be in place. No need to reincarnate after they drop: the first set of feat selections in paragon levels, planar turning would be taken.
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Feb 17, 2012 16:42:57 GMT
Demi bonuses don't help in getting the ability to cast higher level spells (17 Int before collecting + 2 demi bonus does not allow casting 9th level spells). I doubt that you can take planar turning without actually taking 25 "real" points in Wis. This isn't true. Demi bonuses count as "real" points. The only way you *cant* do this is via reincarnation, because if you could cast level 9 spells before (even with bonuses) you need to be able to cast level 9 spells before you can reclaim the bonuses (without the bonuses). You could start a new Cleric, and never move past 17 Wisdom. This would only allow you to cast level 7 spells. Upon 1x Demi, you would immediately be able to cast level 9 spells. This doesn't work too well with wizards because, upon gaining 19 INT, you'd need to read scrolls (you'd have to pre-selected spells ready). Now, if you were to re-incarnate this character, you'd have to have 19 WIS BEFORE you could reclaim your Demi bonus. Sad, I know. But if you're willing to use Demi bonuses to cheese, you'd better be willing to do it the hard way, rather than reinc and cheese into it.
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Post by Yojimbo on Feb 17, 2012 16:49:45 GMT
Werehound I thought if you build it with 17 and Demi gets you 19 you could reinc with 17 agian. I thought I saw this come up in a Staffmaster thread where someone had a 17/23 or 19/21 WIZ/WM level split and only 18 INT could reinc with only 18 INT.
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Post by buddhamind on Feb 17, 2012 18:13:54 GMT
Werehound I thought if you build it with 17 and Demi gets you 19 you could reinc with 17 agian. I thought I saw this come up in a Staffmaster thread where someone had a 17/23 or 19/21 WIZ/WM level split and only 18 INT could reinc with only 18 INT. No, believe me I've tried. If you level up a staffy with 18 Int, and reincarnate after Demi, it will force you to give it at least 19 Int or you can't finish the reincarnation... Even if you don't have enough wizard levels to cast level 9 spells (in most cases 15 Wiz / 25 Wpm). I think a few years ago this wasn't the case, but it was changed, which may mean some information in build threads is inaccurate.
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Post by Yojimbo on Feb 17, 2012 19:23:47 GMT
I know I reincarnated my Staffmaster and only took 18 INT so I think you only reuire as much caster score as needed to cast spells up to the level you have in the caster class.
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