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Post by Yojimbo on Mar 20, 2009 22:39:51 GMT
I have always had this fun idea toying around of a monastic BG and I think I finally found a viable build Base Race: Human Sub-race: Hound Archon Extra Smiting, Greater Smite I, and Power Attack STR: +4 CON: +2 WIS: +2 CHA: +4 Starting Stats: Level 1 | Monk (1) | STR: 10 (14) DEX: 8 CON: 10 (12) WIS: 16 (18) INT: 14 CHA: 16 (20) | Blooded Toughness | Hide: 4 |
Pre-Epic: Level 2 | Ranger (1) | | Hide Skill +1 (5) *Favored Enemy* | Level 3 | Ranger (2) | | WF: Kama, Goad, or Nunchaku | Level 4 | Ranger (3) | CHA +1 (21) | | Level 5 | Ranger (4) | | | Level 6 | Ranger (5) | | Intuitive Attack *Favored Enemy* | Level 7 | Ranger (6) | | | Level 8 | Blackguard (1) | CHA +1 (22) | | Level 9 | Blackguard (2) | | Greater Weapon Focus | Level 10 | Blackguard (3) | | | Level 11 | Blackguard (4) | | | Level 12 | Blackguard (5) | CHA +1 (23) | Divine Might | Level 13 | Blackguard (6) | | | Level 14 | Blackguard (7) | | | Level 15 | Blackguard (8) | | Divine Shield | Level 16 | Blackguard (9) | CHA +1 (24) | | Level 17 | Blackguard (10) | | | Level 18 | Ranger (7) | | Improved Critical | Level 19 | Ranger (8) | | | Level 20 | Ranger (9) | CHA +1 (25) | |
Epic: Level 21 | Blackguard (11) | | Armor Skin | Level 22 | Blackguard (12) | | | Level 23 | Blackguard (13) | | Great Smite II | Level 24 | Blackguard (14) | WIS +1 (19) | Epic Weapon Focus | Level 25 | Blackguard (15) | | | Level 26 | Blackguard (16) | | Great Smite III | Level 27 | Blackguard (17) | | Epic Prowess | Level 28 | Blackguard (18) | WIS +1 (20) | | Level 29 | Blackguard (19) | | Great Smite IV | Level 30 | Blackguard (20) | | Great Smite V | Level 31 | Blackguard (21) | | | Level 32 | Blackguard (22) | WIS +1 (21) | Great Smite VI | Level 33 | Blackguard (23) | | Great Smite VII | Level 34 | Blackguard (24) | | | Level 35 | Blackguard (25) | | Great Smite VIII | Level 36 | Blackguard (26) | WIS +1 (22) | Great Smite IX | Level 37 | Blackguard (27) | | | Level 38 | Blackguard (28) | | Great Smite X | Level 39 | Blackguard (29) | | Great Wisdom I (23) | Level 40 | Blackguard (30) | WIS +1 (24) | |
Legendary: Level 41 | Blackguard (31) | | | Level 42 | Blackguard (32) | WIS +1 (25) | LSA: Tumble | Level 43 | Blackguard (33) | | | Level 44 | Blackguard (34) | WIS +1 (26) | | Level 45 | Blackguard (35) | | Legendary Weapon Focus | Level 46 | blackguard (36) | WIS +1 (27) | | Level 47 | Blackguard (37) | | | Level 48 | Blackguard (38) | WIS +1 (28) | Great Wisdom II (29) | Level 49 | Blackguard (39) | | | Level 50 | Blackguard (40) | WIS +1 (30) | | Level 51 | Blackguard (41) | | Great Wisdom III (31) | Level 52 | Blackguard (42) | WIS +1 (32) | | Level 53 | Blackguard (43) | | | Level 54 | Blackguard (44) | WIS +1 (33) | Great Wisdom IV (34) | Level 55 | Blackguard (45) | | | Level 56 | Blackguard (46) | WIS +1 (35) | | Level 57 | Blackguard (47) | | Great Wisdom V (36) | Level 58 | Blackguard (48) | WIS +1 (37) | | Level 59 | Blackguard (49) | | | Level 60 | Blackguard (50) | CHA +1 (30) | Great Wisdom VI (38) |
Skill Points Concentration | 20 | Craft Armor | 40 | Craft Weapon | 40 | Discipline | 63 | Hide | 16 | Listen | 31* | Parry | 63 | Tumble | 60 |
*Dump 23 points into at Level 20 Final Stats: STR: 28 DEX: 8 CON: 12 WIS: 38 INT: 14 CHA: 30 | Fortitude: 75 Reflex: 66 Will: 81 | AC: 122 | AB: 93 Smite AB: 90 |
Paragon Feats: Level 63 | Paragon Weapon Focus | Level 66 | Paragon Balance* | Level 69 | Inherent Levitation | Level 72 | Environmental Adaptivity I | Level 75 | Environmental Adaptivity II | Level 78 | Environmental Adaptivity III |
*Not sure how much benefit Paragon Balance gives but without any points put into DEX those saves will be bad
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Mar 20, 2009 22:50:23 GMT
You need to post the class combination in the title. Interesting at a glance, but leaving to go out for now. I'll take a looksee later. ^_^
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Post by Yojimbo on Mar 20, 2009 23:11:16 GMT
You need to post the class combination in the title. oops oversite there Hope to hear some input I am thinkin when ever I get the subby I might just build him even if he is a squishy damage dealer
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Post by the1kobra on Mar 21, 2009 1:02:20 GMT
Pharlan or Hound Archon would work much better for this character. Pharlan: +6 Str, +4 cha, +4 wis, Divine might Hound Archon: +4 Str, +4 Cha, +2 Wis, +2 Con. You will also want a wisdom of 14 to get all your blackguard spells. The level progression also comes off as a bit odd, if you do 8/4/28 monk/fighter/blackguard, you get +3 feats at vey little cost that I can see.
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Post by Yojimbo on Mar 21, 2009 2:23:56 GMT
The build was designed around that race really so thats why I chose it I saw the race but wanted to go a different path then the normal. I know Fighter lvls would be an option becuase of the feats though you don't need it since you can get Weapon Specialization already. I just providing a basic layout mix it up spice it up change it up how ever you want I like it this way. One thing 12 Monk gives you is 22 SR which I think can not be reduced so you always have 22 SR.
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Post by the1kobra on Mar 21, 2009 2:38:28 GMT
If you want to use Zenthryi for a CC blackguard, I wouldn't go the smiter route. Not having a charisma bonus is going to hurt, and you're going to be stretched very thin. The wis bonus helps get all the spells, and the STR and DEX bonuses are nice, but I don't think a smiter blackguards and Zenthryis agree. I would reccomend making a dex based hybrid lasher. You won't get the smites, but you will have a significant boost to your defense, and you should be able to hit harder as well with the lasher inflictions. You'd probably want to have your stats sorted out like this: 14/15/14/14/12/8 (Human) 18/19/14/14/16/8 (Zeny) Then pump your dex high. I have a lasher that works along a similar vein of building, using kobold, it should come out better with Zeny though.
Though if you do go with the normal BG, 22 SR doesn't mean a lot, most monsters are going to be able to beat that and 1s don't mean an auto-failure for spell penetration. The feats would be more suitable, or even take paladin levels, as they give you more damage on your smiting, and more casterlevels for your BG spells.
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Post by Yojimbo on Apr 13, 2009 19:51:40 GMT
Just a note I would likely change this to be 11 Monk/29 Blackguard or 9 Monk/30 Blackguard/1 Fighter. Note this follows very closely my current Blackguard build I am using which I will post after I finally get it to 60 and do atleast the 1st lvl of Hell.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 17, 2010 21:55:03 GMT
So I have reworked this build and updated the first post to show what might be a viable STR Unarmed or Dual Wielder BG w/ Greater Smiting.
I was bored its been slow at work lol.
Main Changes: #1 Zenythri to Hound Archon the stats just were too costly on Zenythri #2 Dropped Divine Shield as you would only get a KB Shield which can be dangerous, Divine Damage Immunity which would be minor, and a source of Dodge AC which isn't all that needed. #3 Dropped from 12 Monk to 3 and picked up 9 Ranger for Dual Wield feats and more AB.
Still need to do some more math to figure all the final numbers but it actually looks workable though I'm scared the AC is going to end up ugly w/o 2x Demi & a WIS Arti. You won't get the UBAB bonus unless your in Robes and you lose Ranger Dual Wield feat in anything greater than Light Armor.
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Post by Torin on Dec 17, 2010 22:40:00 GMT
For an STR dual wielder monk style, you could check out if dual-ling dwarven axes with Dwarven defender splash and +12 AC would be an option. I'm thinking of 30 BG x Monk y DD, Just a thought..
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 3, 2011 7:47:30 GMT
Updated numbers and added 2 skill point setups for unarmed and dual wielders. I tested in the chamber damage seemed good on it and the changes to gloves to let them be buffed should help this build out. The AC is garbage so it is all about immunities and concealment. I max out hide so you can get some good conceal going a bit easier.
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Post by Yojimbo on Aug 17, 2022 20:49:54 GMT
DEX BuildBase Race: Human Sub-race: Hound Archon Extra Smiting, Greater Smite I, and Power Attack STR: +4 CON: +2 WIS: +2 CHA: +4 Starting Stats: Level 1 | Monk (1) | STR: 10 (14) DEX: 14 CON: 10 (12) WIS: 12 (14) INT: 14 CHA: 16 (20) | Blooded SF: Enchantment | Hide: 4 |
Pre-Epic: Level 2 | Ranger (1) | | Hide Skill +1 (5) GSF: Enchantment | Level 3 | Ranger (2) | | WF: Kama | Level 4 | Ranger (3) | CHA +1 (21) | | Level 5 | Ranger (4) | | | Level 6 | Ranger (5) | | GWF: Kama *Bonus Ranger Feat | Level 7 | Ranger (6) | | | Level 8 | Blackguard (1) | CHA +1 (22) | | Level 9 | Blackguard (2) | | Divine Might | Level 10 | Blackguard (3) | | | Level 11 | Blackguard (4) | | | Level 12 | Blackguard (5) | CHA +1 (23) | Divine Shield | Level 13 | Blackguard (6) | | | Level 14 | Blackguard (7) | | | Level 15 | Blackguard (8) | | IC: Kama | Level 16 | Blackguard (9) | CHA +1 (24) | | Level 17 | Blackguard (10) | | | Level 18 | Ranger (7) | | Weapon Finesse | Level 19 | Ranger (8) | | | Level 20 | Ranger (9) | CHA +1 (25) | |
Epic: Level 21 | Blackguard (11) | | Armor Skin | Level 22 | Blackguard (12) | | | Level 23 | Blackguard (13) | | Great Smite II | Level 24 | Blackguard (14) | DEX+1 (15) | EWF: Kama | Level 25 | Blackguard (15) | | | Level 26 | Blackguard (16) | | Great Smite III | Level 27 | Blackguard (17) | | Epic Prowess | Level 28 | Blackguard (18) | DEX +1 (16) | | Level 29 | Blackguard (19) | | Great Smite IV | Level 30 | Blackguard (20) | | Great Smite V | Level 31 | Blackguard (21) | | | Level 32 | Blackguard (22) | DEX +1 (17) | Great Smite VI | Level 33 | Blackguard (23) | | Great Smite VII | Level 34 | Blackguard (24) | | | Level 35 | Blackguard (25) | | Great Smite VIII | Level 36 | Blackguard (26) | DEX +1 (18) | Great Smite IX | Level 37 | Blackguard (27) | | | Level 38 | Blackguard (28) | | Great Smite X | Level 39 | Blackguard (29) | | Great Dexterity I (19) | Level 40 | Blackguard (30) | DEX +1 (20) | |
Legendary: Level 41 | Blackguard (31) | | | Level 42 | Blackguard (32) | DEX +1 (21) | LSA: Tumble | Level 43 | Blackguard (33) | | | Level 44 | Blackguard (34) | DEX +1 (22) | | Level 45 | Blackguard (35) | | LWF: Kama | Level 46 | blackguard (36) | DEX +1 (23) | | Level 47 | Blackguard (37) | | | Level 48 | Blackguard (38) | DEX +1 (24) | Great Dexterity II (25) | Level 49 | Blackguard (39) | | | Level 50 | Blackguard (40) | DEX +1 (26) | | Level 51 | Blackguard (41) | | Great Dexterity III (27) | Level 52 | Blackguard (42) | DEX +1 (28) | | Level 53 | Blackguard (43) | | | Level 54 | Blackguard (44) | DEX +1 (29) | Great Dexterity IV (30) | Level 55 | Blackguard (45) | | | Level 56 | Blackguard (46) | DEX +1 (31) | | Level 57 | Blackguard (47) | | Great Dexterity V (32) | Level 58 | Blackguard (48) | DEX +1 (33) | | Level 59 | Blackguard (49) | | | Level 60 | Blackguard (50) | CHA +1 (34) | Great Dexterity VI (34) |
Skill Points Concentration | 20 | Craft Armor | 43 | Craft Weapon | 43 | Discipline | 63 | Hide | 10 | Listen | 31* | Parry | 63 | Tumble | 60 |
*Dump 23 points into at Level 20 Final Stats: STR: 28 DEX: 34 CON: 12 WIS: 14 INT: 14 CHA: 30 | Fortitude: 75 Reflex: 79 Will: 69 | Dual Wield AC: 123 Shielded AC: 134* | Dual AB: 91 1 Hand AB: 93 Smite AB: 90 |
*Dual Wield AC assumes Robes Shielded AC Assume Light Armor + Small Shield @ 2x Demi, DEX Arti, & +14 Gear Dual Wield AC reaches 128 and AB hit 94 not assuming PLs Paragon Feats: Level 63 | PWF: Kama | Level 66 | Great Dexterity VII (35) | Level 69 | Great Dexterity VIII (36) | Level 72 | Environmental Adaptivity I | Level 75 | Environmental Adaptivity II | Level 78 | Environmental Adaptivity III |
STR BuildBase Race: Human Sub-race: Hound Archon Extra Smiting, Greater Smite I, and Power Attack STR: +4 CON: +2 WIS: +2 CHA: +4 Starting Stats: Level 1 | Monk (1) | STR: 14 (18) DEX: 10 CON: 10 (12) WIS: 12 (14) INT: 14 CHA: 16 (20) | Blooded SF: Enchantment | Hide: 4 |
Pre-Epic: Level 2 | Ranger (1) | | Hide Skill +1 (5) GSF: Enchantment | Level 3 | Ranger (2) | | WF: Kama | Level 4 | Ranger (3) | CHA +1 (21) | | Level 5 | Ranger (4) | | | Level 6 | Ranger (5) | | GWF: Kama *Bonus Ranger Feat | Level 7 | Ranger (6) | | | Level 8 | Blackguard (1) | CHA +1 (22) | | Level 9 | Blackguard (2) | | Divine Might | Level 10 | Blackguard (3) | | | Level 11 | Blackguard (4) | | | Level 12 | Blackguard (5) | CHA +1 (23) | Divine Shield | Level 13 | Blackguard (6) | | | Level 14 | Blackguard (7) | | | Level 15 | Blackguard (8) | | Improved Critical | Level 16 | Blackguard (9) | CHA +1 (24) | | Level 17 | Blackguard (10) | | | Level 18 | Ranger (7) | | Blind Fight | Level 19 | Ranger (8) | | | Level 20 | Ranger (9) | CHA +1 (25) | |
Epic: Level 21 | Blackguard (11) | | Armor Skin | Level 22 | Blackguard (12) | | | Level 23 | Blackguard (13) | | Great Smite II | Level 24 | Blackguard (14) | STR +1 (19) | EWF: Kama | Level 25 | Blackguard (15) | | | Level 26 | Blackguard (16) | | Great Smite III | Level 27 | Blackguard (17) | | Epic Prowess | Level 28 | Blackguard (18) | STR +1 (20) | | Level 29 | Blackguard (19) | | Great Smite IV | Level 30 | Blackguard (20) | | Great Smite V | Level 31 | Blackguard (21) | | | Level 32 | Blackguard (22) | STR +1 (21) | Great Smite VI | Level 33 | Blackguard (23) | | Great Smite VII | Level 34 | Blackguard (24) | | | Level 35 | Blackguard (25) | | Great Smite VIII | Level 36 | Blackguard (26) | STR +1 (22) | Great Smite IX | Level 37 | Blackguard (27) | | | Level 38 | Blackguard (28) | | Great Smite X | Level 39 | Blackguard (29) | | Great Dexterity I (11) | Level 40 | Blackguard (30) | STR +1 (23) | |
Legendary: Level 41 | Blackguard (31) | | | Level 42 | Blackguard (32) | STR +1 (34) | LSA: Tumble | Level 43 | Blackguard (33) | | | Level 44 | Blackguard (34) | STR +1 (35) | | Level 45 | Blackguard (35) | | LWF: Kama | Level 46 | blackguard (36) | STR +1 (37) | | Level 47 | Blackguard (37) | | | Level 48 | Blackguard (38) | STR +1 (38) | Great Dexterity II (12) | Level 49 | Blackguard (39) | | | Level 50 | Blackguard (40) | STR +1 (40) | | Level 51 | Blackguard (41) | | Great Dexterity III (13) | Level 52 | Blackguard (42) | STR +1 (41) | | Level 53 | Blackguard (43) | | | Level 54 | Blackguard (44) | STR +1 (42) | Great Dexterity IV (14) | Level 55 | Blackguard (45) | | | Level 56 | Blackguard (46) | STR +1 (44) | | Level 57 | Blackguard (47) | | Great Dexterity V (15) | Level 58 | Blackguard (48) | STR +1 (45) | | Level 59 | Blackguard (49) | | | Level 60 | Blackguard (50) | CHA +1 (34) | Great Dexterity VI (16) |
Skill Points Concentration | 20 | Craft Armor | 43 | Craft Weapon | 43 | Discipline | 63 | Hide | 10 | Listen | 31* | Parry | 63 | Tumble | 60 |
*Dump 23 points into at Level 20 Final Stats: STR: 46 DEX: 16 CON: 12 WIS: 14 INT: 14 CHA: 30 | Fortitude: 75 Reflex: 70 Will: 69 | Dual Wield AC: 113 Shielded AC: 125* | Dual AB: 96 1 Hand AB: 98 Smite AB: 90 |
*Dual Wield AC assumes Robes Shielded AC Assume Light Armor + Large Shield @2x Demi, DEX Arti, & +14 Gear Dual Wield AC reaches 119 and AB hits 99 not assuming PLs Paragon Feats: Level 63 | PWF: Kama | Level 66 | Paragon Balance | Level 69 | Inherent Levitation | Level 72 | Environmental Adaptivity I | Level 75 | Environmental Adaptivity II | Level 78 | Environmental Adaptivity III |
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Post by Yojimbo on Aug 17, 2022 21:41:07 GMT
Updated first build to something more reasonable I believe and added variant just above this post.
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Post by boroie on Aug 17, 2022 22:30:25 GMT
Why are you taking 2 feats in enchantment? You would be better off taking maybe blindfighting to unlock LSA listen. OR even just power attack and cleave, then moving monk to level 40 to max out tumble and listen as class skills. Hide is a class skill (BG) and you only have 10 ranks. You have no conceal and poor AC, that is not a great combination. On the dex version you posted I feel that neither your dex nor charisma is high enough to make it worthwhile. On a tier 1 ab tank if you aim for about 38-42 base in the primary stat (adding artifact afterwards) then your AB will be good. Take 26 dex (for a str or cha tank) to max out light armor (assuming 2x demi, +2 from paragon stats). I find this build confusing - you are trying to do too many things but not really focusing on anything. You seem to be taking monk to unlock flurry, and ranger for dualwield which locks you at robes for flurry and no ranger AC and no shield. But you give a shielded AC which where you use a shield and armor thus losing flurry and dualwielding and the whole point of 10 of your class levels. This also invalidates the choice of kama as a weapon, in which case you might as well just go a 2 hander weapon and light armor and drop the monk level and the ranger levels. Having ranger and/or monk levels also means you get no shield ac from divine shield which makes that a useless feat to take. Smiting is still 1x per 2 mins and as a 50 blackguard you will only get rechargable smite good, which does predictably very little in hells/abyss. Even still, that is only usable once per round also which sort of invalidates the idea of a 10 apr smiter.
If you want to keep the str or dex focus version then keep charisma barely enough to get great smite 10, then focus your primary stat to 40 base and dress appropriately for the other. Or focus cha and go rapier wit, while adjusting str/dex to be a uni tank (hitting 20+ base on both will be a good starting point). Drop monk and the idea of flurry, drop ranger and take fighter levels instead. That lets you benefit from divine shield (and your high cha), you get tons of bonus feats so can easily match the free cleave and dual wielding feats you get from monk/ranger, and opens up paragon weapon spec for an extra 20 damage per hit. Then on a str based toon you could use light armor and have ac in the 130s, or robes on a dexer and probably approach 140 ac while still dual wielding and having decent damage output and being somewhat uni. You can also still throw in smites but the rechargable smite good wont do you much good outside of elysium and rona bar some mobs here and there. So then you have no need to really take 50 blackguard either, you can go 26 pre-epic levels instead of 30 which gives you maxed self-buffs on div/cold, and take another class there - eg shadowdancer for evasion, or WM for crits, etc etc. But I just dont see ranger monk dualwield smiter being much fun to play. Sorry.
I can see you are trying to do something different but I just dont feel it works as a combination. My 2 cents.
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Post by Yojimbo on Aug 18, 2022 15:39:52 GMT
IIRC Ranger bonus can only be Favored Enemy or GSF and yeah this build is just a fun idea i keep coming back to and toying with the build on so thanks for the input.
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Post by Yojimbo on Aug 19, 2022 16:58:48 GMT
I changed up those first feats played in test chamber it is stuck w/ 2 Favored Enemy feats and switching from STR or DEX to WIS allows for a decent AB without terrible AC. boroieThe shield wielding AB & AC are just for the option to switch and boost AC & AB but it does give up the attack progression. I can absolutely see a CHA dual Rapier wielder build but for that I would drop ranger for fighter maybe so I could dump all points past any requirements into CHA and get AC from Divine Shield mostly. I noticed in test chamber at least I was having some glitches with BG spells might be a conflict with Ranger spells or just something test chars suffer
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