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Post by greven on Jan 6, 2010 20:06:34 GMT
Blade Barrier won't have enough ab to hit; the Blade AB is CL + (caster modifier / 2) + (Conj foci * 3).
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Post by rainwalker on Feb 17, 2010 19:10:27 GMT
Question I'm thinking of building a Battle Cleric and was wondering the benefits of 35 lvl's of cleric vs say 25 lvl's? I mean your casting is mainly self buffing, GRestore. The biggest hit I see is 120 temp HP less and 20 less resist 200 soak on Gate. If I calculated right your only losing 1 round on most spells based on rounds and 5 turns on your epics. Is there anything I'm missing?
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Post by Torin on Feb 17, 2010 19:50:19 GMT
35 cleric levels +20 LL levels with cc cleric = 55 caster levels for all your spells. CL influence duration and power... Important are: - Epic Mage Armor: Gives Epic Dodge with 50CL - Divine Power: - - Grants additional attacks at CL45 and CL55. - - At CL41, increases Legendary BAB to that of a fighter if the caster has at least three levels in 1/1 BAB classes. - Cleric's Gate need much caster levels for best effect
With 35 cleric levels you get 5 cleric bonus feats. If you would take only 25, you would get 1 cleric bonus feat.
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Post by rainwalker on Feb 17, 2010 20:48:03 GMT
Okay Epic Dodge I see. I didn't notice it in the test chambers, but out of the 5 bonus feats are the NWN epics spells selectable? I don't remember being able too. Are the additional attacks at max AB or typical fighter progression? I guess the reason I'm asking 25 vs 35 lvl question is someone stated their battle cleric didn't take LSF Div, because they didn't notice a difference between ESF and LSF Div. Well doing the math lvl 55 with ESF is 110 resist/687 max soak and lvl 45 with LSF is 90 resist/1125 max soak. Thanks for the speed answer.
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Post by phalthallus on Jul 12, 2010 14:13:54 GMT
I'm about to reincarnate my Battle Cleric, which was kind of a marriage of this one and Mish's. I went the two fighter levels Mish had (when this one was still Monk I think), combined with the 3 epics of this one. The only differences I'm making during reincarnation are to drop 2 Great Strength feats, for Greater Weapon Focus and Power Crit, and I'm changing my 3rd epic to Abjuration over Enchantment. I feel like Gird is less useful now, because: 1) It no longer affects Asmo armor or shield 2) The increase in the number of shieldless toons (Rangers, CoT's, Staffy's, etc) Not to mention that GMW is less useful now, since almost every Cleric out there has IOF. So not only do you have your own, but you can use another Cleric's (Turner, Caster, etc) for off-weapons. So instead, I'm taking Abjuration, for: 1) Aegis - great epic, especially in the Abyss 2) Energy Immunity - 50% to an element (75% if you drop some feat for LSF) is great, and you already have Extend for Greater Restores 3) Magic Vestment. This grants +18 (+19 with LSF) shield AC (and some armors - specifically medium and light, or randomized plates that went below +18); it's essentially the same thing as Girding, just for yourself. While that last part sounds greedy, you are providing your party with 27/- and 9% immunity to exotics, and potentially 50% to one element, to anyone you have the slots to cover. The other difference is that I took LSF: Div the first time through. I may reconsider that this time; the Asmo armor + Energy Immunity is a huge improvement in immunities, and thus Gate should last longer. The other downside, though, is lower Listen buff from C/C. But if I did drop it, I could pick up LSF: Abj, for 1 more shield AC, and 25% more immunity from EI. Lastly, does anyone have any thoughts on the Good domain? This would provide Stoneskin, while also allowing you to turn Outsiders as if they were Undead. I'm wondering if this could be used to stun some creatures in the Hells/Abyss. EDIT: Does Stoneskin stack with Gate? I think it does, but I noticed in Mish's list of spells that he has mem'd, he doesn't include it. There's also no real mention of it in this thread either. It also only soaks 17 damage per hit, soaking up a max of 825 damage. Is it worth casting when you have Gate up? If not, I think I'm better off taking something else, like Plant maybe. Thoughts?
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Post by Yojimbo on Jul 12, 2010 20:48:35 GMT
I was thinking of doing much the same Phalthallus but because IoF is so abundant I thought I would drop that keep Gird and grab Aegis. I also would have passable GMW for when there is a lack of IoF or a Pariah.
Sorry Phal I corrected it I was busy so trying to finish typing makes for some bad errors.
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Post by jonuhey on Jul 12, 2010 21:13:32 GMT
With the great amount of things that heals on a great amount of elementals/exotics 2 Iofs is anything but redundant. I wouldnt drop it never. Imo, if a cleric can afford one epic that is miracle, if 2, then its IoF... only after the 3rd it gets to player own opinion But thats only me anyway...
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Post by borges on Jul 12, 2010 22:43:14 GMT
I was thinking of doing much the same Phallus but because IoF is so abundant I thought I would drop that keep Gird and grab Aegis. I also would have passable GMW for when there is a lack of IoF or a Pariah. LOL Phallus.
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Post by jeanhelixü on Jul 12, 2010 23:35:46 GMT
Asmo shield is boosted by gird again, praise O-Bac-On.
Also in abyss a lot of tanks use shields. I definitely recommend girding over aegis. I've been considering reincarnating my caster cleric to drop aegis for girding; I haven't because I'm always hesitant to reincarnate and I'd lose a lot of tags.
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Post by simpetar on Jul 13, 2010 12:31:33 GMT
The only differences I'm making during reincarnation are to drop 2 Great Strength feats, for Greater Weapon Focus and Power Crit I would not other with Power Crit as there are augmenters that give IC/PC, and if/when the Spiny Fish from Locathah is fixed, even Superior Crit. and I'm changing my 3rd epic to Abjuration over Enchantment. I feel like Gird is less useful now, because: 1) It no longer affects Asmo armor or shield Magic Vestment *does* stack with Girding. On a tower shield, you can potentially get 23 AC (3 base + 18 Vestment + 2 Girding), that is more than (girded) asmo shield. EDIT: Does Stoneskin stack with Gate? I think it does, but I noticed in Mish's list of spells that he has mem'd, he doesn't include it. There's also no real mention of it in this thread either. It also only soaks 17 damage per hit, soaking up a max of 825 damage. Is it worth casting when you have Gate up? If not, I think I'm better off taking something else, like Plant maybe. Thoughts? Stone Skin is damage reduction. Gate is damage resistance. When you are being hit, reduction applies first, resistance after. As long as you keep Gate from collapsing and have decent Stoneskin, you may see 0s floating above your head. simpetar
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Post by phalthallus on Jul 13, 2010 13:17:29 GMT
Well, I haven't got many Improved/Power Crit augs, but that is an option I suppose. Dropping those would let me get Enchant and Abjuration both potentially. I could just live without IC/PC until I got the aug I wanted. It'd be nicer to HAVE the aug now, to pick a weapon, rather than choosing my weapon (going Morningstar again I think, for the dual damage types) and waiting to find that specific aug. But not having IC/PC is not the end of the world either.
I'm still unsure Stoneskin is worth it. Soaking 17 damage, for a max of 825 damage, seems paltry compared to the 110 soak I get from Gate. With Crit Immunity up, and always being in GR, I rarely see anything get through Gate anyway. And the Stoneskin will go down before Gate, based on how much damage each soaks, so it's not a "for when Gate goes down" buff either. So I guess I'm not sold on Stoneskin at the moment. I am still intrigued by the Good domain though, to stun outsiders. If I go that route, I can get Stoneskin for free and run some trials with and without it.
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Post by simpetar on Jul 13, 2010 13:34:18 GMT
When I play my b cleric, I usually find, that Stoneskin lasts fairly long, sometimes it is even active when I go to rest. One thing to consider is, that Gate attempts to soak all of physical, elemental and exotic damage, while Stoneskin only physical, therefore lasts somewhat longer. That partially makes up for the difference in absorption limits. Another factor you can take into consideration is what armor type you use (in terms of physical immunities, potentially its own reduction) and availability of items with Epic Warding. If you can use these reasonable times per rest, you can laugh at Stoneskin. On the other hand, at times I forget to cast Stoneskin while buffing (all 3 quickbars being crowded) and hardly notice any difference in survivability.
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Post by phalthallus on Jul 13, 2010 13:51:53 GMT
Yeah, I didn't cast Stoneskin on my recent trip thru the Hells, and rarely found myself wishing I had. With the gear setup I have planned since I demi'd it, it seems less necessary (Asmo armor, with 40% physicals and 100% to one element is fantastic, let alone the +30 Listen and other niceties).
Playing with it some more, I figured out if I drop IC/PC, and drop 2 Charisma for 2 Wisdom at start, I can fit both ESF: Enchantment, and LSF: Abjuration, keeping Divine (LSF) and Trans foci. So I give up 1 damage and 1 round of duration for DIvine Might, and 1 to all saves, to get a 4th epic. Seems like very little cost. I think that's the route I'll go.
So in summary, the differences between Sabre's posted build and my planned one are: - Change Strength domain to Good (keep Stoneskin, try out stunning outsiders) - Start with 14 Wisdom and 10 Charisma, instead of 12/12 (before subrace changes) - Change IC to SF: Abj - Change two Great Wisdom bonus feats to GSF: Abj and ESF: Abj - Drop two Great Strength feats for Greater Weapon Focus (keeps the same AB) and LSF: Abjuration
This nets you the same AB, fewer crits (until you get an aug with IC/PC on it that you can put on your gear), and a 4th epic that grants 9% and 27/- exotics, 75% immunity to 1 element, and Vestment, to up your Shield, and potentially armor, AC.
The last decision point is: - Two of: ESF: Discipline, LSF: Divination, Epic Reflexes. First trip through the Hells, I had both ESF: Disc and LSF: Div. Now there's really only room for one of them (or dropping LSF: Abj for one). Looking through the Abyss bestiary, I just decided the Reflex Save was too low, and felt I needed to pick it up a bit. There are no Discipline checks I've seen higher than 120, which I can hit with the 43 Disc dump at 40, gear, and strength modifier, so I'm leaning towards LSF: Div. Another reason is so few casters have LSF: Div and C/C, and it's nice to be able to provide this.
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Post by jeanhelixü on Jul 13, 2010 20:25:25 GMT
You won't be able to stun outsiders since you won't have Planar Turning.
I probably wouldn't take esf: disc myself, but it's worth noting that paragons can get extremely high disc checks since skill checks increase by +10 per paragon.
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Post by Yojimbo on Jul 13, 2010 20:48:56 GMT
Johnny I guess part of my line of reasoning was to focus on defensive abilities over offensive was another part of the Gird over IoF. Ultimately Epics are icing on the cake there is no right and wrong but we all know parties often prefer one over another.
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