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Post by giffyd on Nov 15, 2008 21:21:54 GMT
Okay, here is my modified build.
Race : Human Subby : Negatai
Starting Stats,(with Subby)
STR: 8 DEX: 14 CON: 14(16) INT: 18(24) WIS: 10 CHA: 8(24)
Artifact: Eye of Vecna
Free Feats: Auto Still 1 & 2, Still spell, 25% negative immunity
1. [Wiz 1] - Lightning Reflexes, Luck of Heros 3. [Wiz 3] - SP 5. [PM 3] - SF Illusion 8. [PM 6] - GSF Illusion 12.[PM 9] - Silent Spell 15.[Wiz 6] - GSP, Maximize Spells 18.[Wiz 8] - Empower Spell 20.[Cleric 1] ====================================== 21.[PM 11] - Great Int I 23.[PM 13] - Epic Spell Penetration 24.[PM 14] - Great Int II 26.[PM 16] - Epic Warding 27.[PM 17] - Great Int III 29.[PM 19] - ESF Illusion 30.[PM 20] - Great Int IV 32.[PM 22] - Grtr Ruin 33.[PM 23] - Great Int V 35.[PM 25] - Epic Mage Armor 36.[PM 26] - Great Int VI 38.[PM 28] - Auto Still 3 39.[PM 29] - Great Int VII 40.[PM 30] ======================================= Legendary Levels: Use Necro Tome Legendary Spell Penetration Legendary Spell Focus Necro Legendary Spell Focus Illusion Legendary Luck Grt Int 8,9,10
The changes are the Luck of Heros, Legendary Luck of Heros, Maximize Spells and Epic Warding instead of Transmutation.
Any comments?
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Post by setekhi on Nov 16, 2008 7:22:22 GMT
What about instead of cutting Trans for save feats, you could read the Divination book instead? Are the feats worth more than the auto-res epic?
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Post by chirikov on Nov 16, 2008 9:21:39 GMT
you get a boost to the max hp on power word kill. thats about the only other benefit from div foci on a pm
i suppose you could also throw around c/c, but your duration will suck even if you extend it
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Post by nohmask on Nov 17, 2008 0:39:51 GMT
I"m betting you are running around when dying as well (so your ghost wouldnt probably even hit if it was in the autocaster), and there would be little to rebuff you in your autocaster....if you refer to dboaster's pm he has spent 4 feats on saves....you are probably not going to die from being hit as a PM, but if you are failing saves right and left one auto rez wont get you through the fight...it is an intersting point though, if you try to actually keep from dying or do you figure you will so you take the auto rez....I love the contingency epic on my wizard, and miss it horribly on my theurge, but with the bard epic it seems its not quite as needed as it once was...
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Post by setekhi on Nov 17, 2008 2:33:46 GMT
That's 3 saving throw feats, total, and he was already taking 1 of them, which was Lightning Reflexes. And let's be serious, that's a non-crucial feat. 51 instead of 49 reflex is supposed to completely define the build? Will seems to need more help than Fort, so I would think you could get away with just taking Epic Will for the same effect as Legendary Luck.
Do both Epic Warding and Mage Armor really come up that much as justifying the build?
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Post by Ralkain on Nov 19, 2008 15:15:25 GMT
Hey Arch, Nice build. I was planning a similar build, but since you've played one already, I have a few questions for you: - Why not take Cleric at L2 for armor?
- Why are you maxing hide skill?
- I take it Epic Spells use your normal caster level and not your reduced or increased PM caster levels?
- Instead of taking Lightning Reflexes and LSF Trans, I was planning on taking Luck of Heroes and Legendary luck for +4 Fort/Will saves and +2 Reflex saves. The only sacrifice being LSF Trans, do you really need that last +2 in trans?
- Vaguely considering Mummy Dust, but its not in my build as I fear it will be useless, do you know if the L50 mummy is any good?
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Post by nohmask on Nov 19, 2008 17:05:31 GMT
The L50 Mummy is a lot of fun really, but wont survive a second in the hells I suspect.....nothing better visually than a mummy running around hasted....the PM summons however is thought of as being better (I think it lives for a few rounds in Avernus?).
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Post by archmage on Nov 19, 2008 21:10:54 GMT
Hey Arch, Nice build. I was planning a similar build, but since you've played one already, I have a few questions for you: - Why not take Cleric at L2 for armor?
- Why are you maxing hide skill?
- I take it Epic Spells use your normal caster level and not your reduced or increased PM caster levels?
- Instead of taking Lightning Reflexes and LSF Trans, I was planning on taking Luck of Heroes and Legendary luck for +4 Fort/Will saves and +2 Reflex saves. The only sacrifice being LSF Trans, do you really need that last +2 in trans?
- Vaguely considering Mummy Dust, but its not in my build as I fear it will be useless, do you know if the L50 mummy is any good?
It doesnt really matter at which level you take cleric as long as its before 20. Edit* Oh yes, I took cleric at 20 to pump Discipline as high as possible. I took Hide because I have a ridiculous number of skill points, and I can get semi decent conceal from mass camo with Hide I dont understand your epics question, if you mean for GR and EMA, it takes your pm levels into account.' Now, it would make much more sense to take Luck and Leg Luck, but when I made this build, I took LSF trans to take advantage of Disintegrate for Machines. This is no longer viable, and is something I would correct on my PM, assuming it wouldn't be the total nightmare that is reincarnating a pm. aka when the aboleth book gets fixed. Mummy Dust is terrible, take Epic Warding first, take Blinding Speed, hell take Circle Kick. All jokes aside, its not that bad, but it is definitely NOT worth a feat. Right now, imho none of the summons are worth a feat. you could always use a pandect for the summon btw. Edit: 1,000th post, I don't know whether to be proud, or deeply disturbed
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Post by chainlink on Nov 19, 2008 21:39:39 GMT
No you didn't take cleric at 20 for discipline as its cc for clerics.
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Post by archmage on Nov 19, 2008 23:20:27 GMT
hmm, than I'm not sure why I took it at 20, maybe it doesn't matter after all. Good catch Flay.
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Post by setekhi on Nov 21, 2008 23:21:22 GMT
2-epic Spelljammer PM
Character Creation - At 60 pre-arti 8 8 - 10 18 - 22 18 - 54 12 - 10 8
=Base (7) Toughness [SF: Illus, Spell Pen, Craft Wand, ESF: Conc] GSF: Illus Empower Spell Maximize Spell Greater Spell Pen Still Spell Iron Will
=Wiz (1) Silent Spell
=Epic (7) Great Int 1-7
=PM (6) Auto Still 1-3 Epic Spell Pen ESF: Illus Epic Spell: Greater Ruin
=LL (7) Great Int 8-10 LSF Nec LSF Illus Legendary Spell Pen Legendary Will
Read the ESF Necro book.
Saves of 59/47/65. I suspect you should just give up on reflex entirely and just stay out of dragon breath and webs or whatever.
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Post by garney on Jan 16, 2009 18:08:55 GMT
Archmage, in this topic u said u would drop the trans epic, but your build sheet still shows u reading the trans tome. Change your mind about dropping trans? or hasnt the build sheet been updated yet?
Cheers
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 8, 2009 10:24:17 GMT
Been looking over PMs heavily as I build my own. Your thoughts on the following?
- Dropped PM to 28 pre-LL, meaning 48 total. Loses 1 SP, but no DC off full PM. Misses out on Lifeblight (non-recastable temp hp seemed to me of moderate value in the face of all the KB we face these days). - Picked up an 11th Wizard level at 22 for Soul Bind and Time Stop. (Yes, I know I could use a Crystal, but since I was dropping one PM level anyway... didn't lose anything to drop a second!) - Splashing Fighter at 40. I've noticed mages being less and less expected to disintegrate machines, and didn't want to take a LL feat just for +2 DC versus a single mob. Dropped LSF trans for Legendary Luck, and with the will boost, Fighter makes a nifty Disc dump, plus Armor Skin for free.
From what I could tell, the changes I made on the PM I'm building mean I get -1 SP, -2 DC on Disint, and I lose Lifeblight. Gains 12 Disc, saves improved a bit, gets +2 AC as well. Wanted to keep Leg Reflexes but found out the hard way that PM doesn't get Great INT as bonus feat, so I have to reinc.
Am I making some grave error in doing this? Or is it an acceptable trade-off?
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Post by jonuhey on Feb 8, 2009 15:08:55 GMT
Been looking over PMs heavily as I build my own. Your thoughts on the following? - Dropped PM to 28 pre-LL, meaning 48 total. Loses 1 SP, but no DC off full PM. Misses out on Lifeblight (non-recastable temp hp seemed to me of moderate value in the face of all the KB we face these days). - Picked up an 11th Wizard level at 22 for Soul Bind and Time Stop. (Yes, I know I could use a Crystal, but since I was dropping one PM level anyway... didn't lose anything to drop a second!) - Splashing Fighter at 40. I've noticed mages being less and less expected to disintegrate machines, and didn't want to take a LL feat just for +2 DC versus a single mob. Dropped LSF trans for Legendary Luck, and with the will boost, Fighter makes a nifty Disc dump, plus Armor Skin for free. From what I could tell, the changes I made on the PM I'm building mean I get -1 SP, -2 DC on Disint, and I lose Lifeblight. Gains 12 Disc, saves improved a bit, gets +2 AC as well. Wanted to keep Leg Reflexes but found out the hard way that PM doesn't get Great INT as bonus feat, so I have to reinc. Am I making some grave error in doing this? Or is it an acceptable trade-off? im not the owner of this build but Im seeing something you still dont know... disintegrate doesnt works anymore as you wanted with PMs, some mobs have a CL disintegrate immunity, so your disintegrate level wont hit it (tho I got it on my PM anyway). Just forget about this spell =) (bfms should forget too...) Also, you dont need to take a lv11 wiz to get those 2 spells, if you have Energy drain you can adquire the Soul bind from the spell pedestal. Also there is at least one place where TS always drop just get one of these while you are leveling up. And if you miss any necro spell just send a tell to me that I can craft one for you.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 8, 2009 17:59:40 GMT
If I splash Fighter at 40, I get 43 discipline instead of 31. That's the main reason. Once PM drops to 29 pre-LL, there's no good reason not to drop to 28, as there's no loss of feat, no loss of SP, no loss of PM DC bonus... in fact, I forgot to mention something - by taking Wizard 10, you gain a bonus feat. Splashing Fighter/Cleric at 20 and taking 30 PM would mean 9 Wizard and one less feat. I suppose if you drop trans altogether, Bullheaded/LSA Disc might be an option. I hate having low Disc; one reason I'm going to reinc my pure ploder soon. One small piece of advice to those using Arch's build: it may be worth your while to take Necro foci pre-LL and use a Spell Penetration tome instead. SP is far less necessary pre-LL, and the tome is much easier to get solo. I've even seen plenty of SP tomes on the market.
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