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Post by Ford Prefect on Aug 18, 2009 3:31:40 GMT
There are a ton of AA/monk builds on the wiki, and some of them are pretty good... ...and some of them are pretty old! <wink> So I decided to post my build. I only post proven builds, so I had to hold off for a bit, and while I was waiting to demi this gal, a couple updates went in. So.. this is the build I demi'ed, PLUS a few perks from the latest update. There are TWO ways you can build this toon, as the starting stats are impacted by whether or not you're rolling the toon from scratch or reincarnating a demi toon. If you've recently demied your vanilla AA, and are looking to try something a little different, you'll have to adjust your starting stats a bit to avoid being bit by an anti-exploit. (The anti-exploit will prevent you from getting your demi bonus stats from the pillar of light if your base charisma is below 12)
Gender Female Race Elf/Erinyes Class 6Bard/5PDK/29AA Alignment Neutral Good
Starting Stats [if reincarnating as a demi] st 15 (+3) [15] dx 18 (+4) [18] in 12 (+2) [12] co 10 (+0) [8] wi 8 (-1) [8] ch 12 (+1) [14]
after Erinyes mod
st 15 (+3) [15] dx 24 (+8) [24] in 12 (+1) [12] co 12 (+1) [10] wi 12 (+1) [12] ch 10 (+0) [12 ]
1 Blooded Bard levels 1-6 3 Mounted Combat (req for PDK) 4 STR+1(16) 5 Intimidate+1,listen+2,persuade+1,ride+2,spot+2 (PDK req) 6 Power Attack (req for Over.Crit) 7 PDK levels 7-10 8 STR+1(17) 9 Cleave 11 AA levels 11-39 12 STR+1(18) Imp.Crit:Longbow 15 Great Cleave 16 STR+1(19) 18 Called Shot 20 STR+1(20) lvl stat feat notes 21 Great STR 1(21) 24 STR+1(22) Great STR 2(23), Epic Prowness Bonus AA Feat 27 Great STR 3(24) 28 DEX+1(25) Over.Crit Bonus AA Feat 30 Great STR 4(25) 32 DEX+1(26) Dev.Crit Bonus AA Feat 33 Great DEX 1(27) 36 DEX+1(28) Great DEX 2(29), Great DEX 3(30) Bonus AA Feat 39 Great DEX 4(31) 40 Disc+43 PDK level 40 DEX+1(32) 42 DEX+1(33) Great DEX 5(34) 44 DEX+1(35) 45 Great DEX 6(36) 46 DEX+1(37) 48 DEX+1(38) Great DEX 7(39) 50 DEX+1(40) 51 Great DEX 8(41) 52 DEX+1(42) 54 DEX+1(43) LWF:Longbow 56 DEX+1(44) 57 LSA:Tumble 58 DEX+1(45) 60 DEX+1(46) Great STR 5(26) (or Armor Skin)
The level 60 feat was a tough call... that extra Great STR evens out your STR and gives you one more point of damage on most AA bows. The Armor skin would add to AC... Pick your poison, YMMV. I also contemplated dropping 2 G.Dex feats and picking up some other feats to improve the utility/flexibility of the toon. But that would have cost me both 1 AC and 1 AB (although with an AB of 101+d20, you could afford to loose that 1 point), and the PDK racial feats are great. Pair this build with a STR bard and even when the nasty random Male spawns on you in the coil, you'll still be standing AND able to run to the middle of all the KD'ed folks and with a single action haul everyone to their feet.
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 18, 2009 7:25:14 GMT
Apart from the anti KD trick, are any of the bardlike party/player buffs worth using with a base charisma of 10[12]? also: 5+6+39=50 so i guess you either mean 29 AA or 49 AA
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Post by Ford Prefect on Aug 18, 2009 15:31:34 GMT
Doh! Got the "39" typo.
With a base cha of 10 (assuming the worst case (worst for cha, not necessarily worst for the toon) scenario and +12 from gear, you end up with the following:
PDK Fear - Target looses (hit dice including LLs + 1)/8 AC (non stacking with bardsong) for 6 (my cha modifier) *2 (because I'm over lvl 41) = 12 rounds. That means at level 60, the target should loose 7 AC for 72 sec. Most mobs don't take more than a minute to kill, but if you end up with one really tough critter (holy crap! the Ravening Male in the back didn't get cursed and the bard is Amni'ed!) you can help a little bit.
PDK Rallying Cry/Bardsong falls into a similar category in that it does last for 72 sec, which is plenty long enough to help out when you're dealing with a tough random or a particularly nasty spawn.
PDK Oath of Wrath Crit Immune doesn't care about CHA PDK Inspire Courage Fear Immune/remove fear doesn't either
PDK Final Stand mini-UUU/PickMeUp has a large radius (5.0) be default, and gets bumped up to 6.0 with a CHA modifier of 6. Honestly, when a PF is chewing on your face and your party is flat on their back, I'm not calculating the radius and measuring out how far I'll be able to get people up. *I* am trying not to piss my pants while I wade through all the KD'ed folks to where the bard is with the "real" UUU before I fire off Final Stand. If the Bard is amni'ed, then I'm just going to waddle to the middle of the KD'ed folks and get up whoever I can with a Final Stand and then a PT2 or three.
PDK Heroic Shield Dodge AC buff is a little limited due to the cha, as the duration is only 36 sec with 6 CHA bonus. I suppose that makes this a great booster shot in the arm right after someone's died, until the bard can sing for them, and it does stack with bardsong.
It's certainly not a bard replacement, but it does have some nice features that help even out some of the tougher fights.
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Post by Yomi on Aug 25, 2009 19:15:49 GMT
My only problem with calling this a recommended build on the wiki is that this build is not what got demi'd. It was a 30 AA, 9 Fighter, 1 Bard, which seems like a completely different build. You've played the 5 PDK version in Hells etc.?
Reincarnation makes the decisions on recommended builds tough, since so many people are now making builds that start life as level 60 multi demis with a full set of gear, so there really isn't any idea how it plays while leveling up or on a first trip through Hells without artifact/ego level gear.
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 27, 2009 12:45:43 GMT
Reincarnation makes the decisions on recommended builds tough, since so many people are now making builds that start life as level 60 multi demis with a full set of gear, so there really isn't any idea how it plays while leveling up or on a first trip through Hells without artifact/ego level gear. perhaps an additional highlight for builds like that? ie green for good open subrace builds blue for builds that were leveled up to 60 and then demied gray for archived builds pruple/pink for builds that need demigod status, or have been reincarnated once demigod (granted - some of those builds will do perfectly without demigod status, but some do)
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Post by Yojimbo on Oct 5, 2022 17:09:38 GMT
I found this build as I was thinking something like this would be good idea
Some thoughts
#1 AB is wrong if I understand docs correctly and PDK now grants Tier 1 LBAB which would be 6 more AB.
#2 Why called shot? I know why rangers take it didn't know any other ranged class took it.
#3 What skills do you invest in besides the required ones, a dump to Disc and tumble?
#4 You put Mounted Combat before the skill points for PDK however Mounted Combat will need the ride skill.
#5 It might be better to take 2 PDK then AA then 2 more PDK to dump some discipline early.
I wouldn't see any reason a reinc build can't be recommended particularly when the reinc is actually forced to take do things that are not really an improvement.
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Post by woqued on Oct 7, 2022 13:51:42 GMT
I found this build as I was thinking something like this would be good idea Some thoughts #1 AB is wrong if I understand docs correctly and PDK now grants Tier 1 LBAB which would be 6 more AB. #2 Why called shot? I know why rangers take it didn't know any other ranged class took it. #3 What skills do you invest in besides the required ones, a dump to Disc and tumble? #4 You put Mounted Combat before the skill points for PDK however Mounted Combat will need the ride skill. #5 It might be better to take 2 PDK then AA then 2 more PDK to dump some discipline early. I wouldn't see any reason a reinc build can't be recommended particularly when the reinc is actually forced to take do things that are not really an improvement. Sir! It's a build from 2009, last edit in 2009, with OP last online in 2011.
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Post by Yojimbo on Oct 10, 2022 14:41:37 GMT
Others might can answer some things and starting here before I look at any build of my own
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Post by chainlink on Nov 7, 2022 13:14:42 GMT
The things to answer are what are the Pros/Cons vs the standard 9 Monk levels AA build (or the 4 Wizard one) and its going to be -
9 Monk Wisdom AC bonus Evasion (can be ignored if you are going to use Panoply of Lira robes) Improved Evasion Monk speed
4 Wizard Significantly higher AC with Mage Armor No Improved Evasion
5 PDK Significantly higher AB (base 18 (10 AA, 5 PDK, 5 Bard) plus Knightly Valor Tier 1 15 vs Tier 3 9 for another 6) Final Stand is useful but will not benefit from improved radius due to low Cha mod Rallying Cry not worth using as it will have minimal duration and additionally gimp users of Tenser's Transformation/Divine Power Inspire Courage as per any character with 5 PDK levels Fear Actually more effective that when used on a Cha based character as its based on PDK level plus Str and Dex mods Significantly lower AC as no Monk levels or Mage Armour mod
Add in whatever else I've missed in your build plan
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Post by boroie on Nov 7, 2022 23:06:54 GMT
Add in whatever else I've missed in your build plan You lose keen when you only have 29 AA.
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Post by Paradoom on Nov 8, 2022 8:23:45 GMT
The AC loss is really big and makes it a glass cannon in my experience. It falls in line with the old harper scout builds in that regard. If you hide behind the sorc or wizard it is fine though.
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Post by chainlink on Nov 8, 2022 13:20:27 GMT
Add in whatever else I've missed in your build plan You lose keen when you only have 29 AA. Nothing to stop you going 30 AA other than the original post had a PDK at level 40 (to splash skills that don't really matter) so I kind of ignored that one
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Post by boroie on Nov 8, 2022 13:58:36 GMT
Nothing to stop you going 30 AA other than the original post had a PDK at level 40 (to splash skills that don't really matter) so I kind of ignored that one Base AB 4 required for PDK which requires bard 6, so cant take PDK until level 7. So yeah you can not take 30 AA levels (which also requires BAB 6 to unlock) assuming you want 5 PDK levels. Hence you lose auto-keen on bows, and lower the overall damage potential significantly.
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Post by chainlink on Nov 8, 2022 17:08:36 GMT
Never noticed the base AB req on PDK but then I've note made one myself, I thought that the odd skill requirements were annoying enough
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Post by boroie on Nov 8, 2022 18:17:46 GMT
Mind you when I put my rogue/pdk/monk together I decided 4 PDK was enough. You lose final stand but you still have about a minute of rallying cry 3x per day (extra attack), and you can still grant true fear immune for 2x 2mins in an aoe. I did it though for AB reasons as an alternative to using wraps. For AA the AB doesnt really grant anything extra as AA is already tier 1 and you already have 4 base attacks on anything with 10 AA levels pre-epic. Assuming you've decided on PDK for build variety/boredom reasons, your choice comes down to basically aoe/self pickup 8x day or auto-keen on your weapon (17-20 vs 18-20) which is not game-breaking, but not optimal either.
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