Gimped is a very odd term to use for this build. If nothing else it's interesting for the historical perspective -- people really didn't play str tanks until Groo persevered and showed everyone, with this toon, that it was not only possible but profitable (though the first trip down through hells before demi looked scary at times). There's nothing wrong with this build. I've seen people do 4DD/36M as an alternative (8 attacks/round), and a number of us have chosen 40 monk since the last round of changes, giving up some offense for all the advantages pure monk give (including keened gloves which does give some bonuses back, but "only" 7 attacks/round). RDD/monk used to be popular for str monks but they're not nearly so attractive any more.
I'll post my pure str monk build if Groo approves (I asked him for a lot of advice before starting mine). You're welcome to post yours so people can have more alternatives.
Post by MurphysLawAgain on Apr 2, 2008 17:16:40 GMT
To answer the specifics. A turner or caster wants their main stat (cha in your example) high enough to cause any target to fail a save on a 2. Once they get there more charisma is unneeded. A charisma of 70 for this purpose is very close to a charisma of 74 in effectiveness.
A tank wants their main stat (Str here) high enough that their worst attack roll will hit on a 2 to achieve uberpowerz tm. In addition if the stat is Str then more points to the stat will still inflict more damage, so not be completely wasted.
After adding my views I should add that Groo gave me advice on building and playing my Dex monk too. If this is gimped mine is a disaster zone. In fact, if this is gimped 98% of the monks on the server need to go immediately to the rowans guardian, confess their sins and be deleted. Forget reincarnation - the account is permanently soiled.
No insults were intended to anyone. And it is not a matter of whether or not I think my build is better or worse, or whether I think your build is good or bad. I have said nothing of the sort, nor have I ever said any build in these forums is bad. Look them up, you will see.
And I was not even commenting on the build, so there is no criticism at all, constructive or otherwise. Far be it for me to suggest that there might be some kind of monk-building competition here, but I would thank you to tone down the rhetoric.
I was only commenting upon the result of getting 70 Str on a monk. My comment is based upon the fact that a 70 Str monk is going to have problems with several key ability and skill-based saves in hells: erinyes domination and malebranche KD to give 2 common examples. Okay, so there is a handy bard epic that negates one of those.
Those who have been quick to jump down my throat have other issues with me and the posts above are merely smoke-screens. If you feel the need to attack me over such a minor matter, then I suggest you brush those chips off your shoulders and we can talk about the real issues in an appropriate forum.
Post by MurphysLawAgain on Apr 2, 2008 17:44:42 GMT
I have no personal issues with you. I would add that from your post below it certainly appears that you are referring to the build quite negatively.
This kind of reminds me about the gimped (IMHO) turners who had 70+ Cha and rocked hells ... for a short time.
If someone called my build gimped and did not explain how it should have been done (e.g add 4 points to Con or add 2 points to int & two to con) I would be quite put out. Especially if the proposed change was contentious. I note that the build in question has a base Dex of 18 ... making it pretty Eriynes proof. In fact the only dex critters that will cause a problem are Malebraches.
I specifically quoted Aribeth's details of how to get 70 Str. Nothing more. If people feel this criticizes Groo's build, then I am afraid I cannot be held responsible for the misunderstanding.
Perhaps a bit more "pen and paper" for those who may still not believe (not directed at you, Phandal). A hypothetical example, since I am not prepared to say anything bad about Groo's build (or any build for that matter).
... shuffle feats as you see fit ... Normal Epic feats (7 total) G Str 7
Bonus Epic feats (4 maximum assuming pure M40) Armour Skin 3x epic toughness or imp stunning fist or imp SR or whatever
Legendary feats (7 total) G Str 8-10 Epic Weapon Focus Epic Prowess Legendary Weapon Focus 1 free for Legendary Luck or ESF or LSF Listen or whatever tickles your fancy
This leaves no space for additional save feats or some potentially interesting combat feats (no, I am not going to be specific here. Feel free to get your own "pen and paper" ).
Inactive, non-troll, happy with how I spend my play time and not impressed with the "derailers" trolling HG forums.
or maybe overwhelming crit and dev crit.. plus the great cleave and power attack you would need pre epic... I guess there are a number of things you could put in as interesting combat feats. maybe even add in 'chuck' weap spec for when you wanna wear bracers with immunes...
Yes those 2 feats would be nice to have and a few ppl have made this build with that variation. Ultimately I decided not include them and I think I mentioned on pg 1 of this thread the logic for this. Mainly to focus on attacks per round/ dmg per hit rather than crits. Major targets being anything crit immune.
As far as dex checks go, my dex ended up at 36.
And the bottom line is despite a particular individuals rather odd point of view, this build is by no means "Broken" or "Messed-up."
I dunno your 2's history.. but it doesn't seem like he is saying your build is broken... I thnk he was just saying that maybe going all 10 Great Str feats to get 70 str is not always the best idea... not saying I agree, thought I might cause I tend to always try and go universal tank...
and you only had great str 8 anyways so instead of thinking he is calling your build flawed which I dont' think he is saying, I would be more upset that your thread is getting hijacked on a discussion on wither or not to get 70 str on tank toons between traz and Aribeth. (ok yours is 70 but that is after demi)
soo there you go... lol I like your build... I was going pure monk for keen, but I see your point and in 3 months once I can redo with a 'proper' race I think I will give it a shot.