Post by Yojimbo on Apr 19, 2009 6:41:53 GMT
Black Snake Moan
10 Rogue/1 Fighter/29 Blackguard
This is the original version of my Black Snake Moan in the open sub forums. I think the new one is better but I figured why not just move this here for everyone. If you want to see the new version here is a link Black Snake Moan v2
Sub-race choice:
Yuan-ti
I chose Yuan-ti because out of all open sub-races it is the only to offer enough Charisma (CHA) boost needed to get your Great Smite I-X feats. It also has the advantage of being Human based for the extra level (lvl) 1 feat. You will need to give up your BG spells which does hurt you but BG does have a ring in the module to give you the Critical hit Immunity that the most important spell gives you. Humans will also receive extra skill points so you can easily max out all the skills you need.
Class choices:
-Rogue (Rog): I picked rogue for a few reasons one being that while leveling not too much is immune to your Sneak Attacks (SA). You will get an addition +1d6 SA for every odd numbered lvl of Rog helping you deal out. You also open up the options to put points into Tumble and Use Magic Device (UMD) skills. Taking 10 lvls of rogue gives you access to at least 1 of their special bonus feats. This class also lets you take the 5 points of Hide with no added cost for cross class.
-Fighter (Ftr): This is in here because the build is a little bit starved for feats so the extra feat for its first lvl helps. This piece of the build is entirely optional and you can place in 1 lvl of most any class you want but the extra feat is very useful.
-Blackguard (BG): This is the whole reason for the build but let us highlight a few of its benefits. This class has its own SA as well which stacks with any other SA and maxes out at +9d6 for the class. Greater Smiting is your friend and your purpose you get it at 20 lvls of BG and you can choose from 4 damage types: Cold, Negative, Divine, and Magic. You get Armor and Weapon proficiencies at lvl 1 and at lvl 2 you get the Dark Blessing feat, which adds your CHA modifier to your saves.
Level 1/Character Creation:
Race: Human
Sub-race: Yuan-ti
*note: sub-race is case sensitive and the Yuan-ti changes your appearance to a female only form
Class: Rogue
*note: taking this as your starting class helps to maximize skill points
Alignment: Any Evil
*note: only requirement is for BG to be evil the chaos and law axis does not matter unless you choose to replace Ftr with a class that does have a requirement.
Starting Ability Points:
Strength (STR): 17
Dexterity (DEX): 9
Constitution (CON): 8
Wisdom (WIS): 9
Intelligence (INT): 13
Charisma (CHA): 16
Skill Points:
Craft Armor (CA): 4
Craft Weapon (CW): 4
Hide: 4
Parry: 4
Tumble: 4
Use Magic Device (UMD): 4
*note: tumble is the only one where it is uses your base skill points only
Feats:
Blooded
-This will enable you to take Legendary Skill Affinity (LSA) Tumble to keep taking Tumble in legendary levels.
Power Attack
-This is required for Cleave, which is required for Blackguard.
Sub-race Edits:
These are applied when you complete the Voyage and reach the docks so do not be alarmed that you’re not a scale covered Yuan-ti until after your hit the docks. If you do not get the edits check your spelling and capitalization of the sub-race.
Ability Point Edits:
STR: 16
DEX: 10
WIS: 6
INT: 14
CHA: 18
*note: CON is unchanged
Skill Point Edits:
Spellcraft: 5
*note: Your don’t need it but you get it
Other:
Spell Resistance: 5 + Lvl
Speaks Draconic
You may change your appearance to 1 of 3 choices available via the scrying device in your inventory. I do not recall the options but many people know these so ask around in game you can change at any time to any of the 3.
Pre-Epic Leveling:
Level 2: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Hide, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
*note: You now have enough Hide for BG so you can stop it here
Level 3: Rogue
Feats: Cleave
-This is a required feat for BG as well for Overwhelming and Devastating Critical
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 4: Rogue
Ability Points: CHA +1
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 5: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 6: Rogue
Feats: Toughness
-You are down 2 points of CON so you need this to just make up for that plus I try to fit it into any build I can
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 7: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 8: Rogue
Ability Points: CHA +1
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
*note: This level achieves your final BG requirement of +6 BAB
Level 9: Blackguard
Feats: Weapon Focus Warhammer
-All melee need to choose a Weapon Focus I went with Warhammer. Some good alternative weapons are Light Flail, Rapier, and Scimitar.
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
*note: For those who choose a different weapon you will need to replace all uses of Warhammer with their chosen weapon.
Level 10: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 11: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 12: Blackguard
Ability Points: CHA +1
Feats: Improved Critical Warhammer
-You want to maximize your damage potential and this will expand your critical hit range
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 13: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 14: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 15: Blackguard
Feats: Extra Smiting
-This will reduce the time between Greater Smites
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 16: Blackguard
Ability Points: CHA +1
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 17: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 18: Blackguard
Feats: Blind Fight
-Listen is a great skill to replace this with but it is a cross class skill in this build so you’re better off not using it and taking blind Fight instead
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 19: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 20: Fighter
Ability Points: CHA +1
Feats: Great Cleave
-This is required for Overwhelming Critical (Over Crit) and Devastating (Dev Crit) Critical
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Epic Levels:
All but the 40th level will be BG uses the standard skill point progressions for lvls 21-39.
Standard Skill Point Progression: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 21: Blackguard
Feats: Great Charisma I
-You need to get to 25 CHA A.S.A.P. and you will have to take this to get there and have enough feats to take all 10 Great Smites.
Level 23: Blackguard
Feats: Epic Weapon Focus Warhammer
-You need this for Legendary Weapon Focus Warhammer to maximize your AB
Level 24: Blackguard
Ability Points: CHA +1
Feat: Great Smite I
-These will increase the power of your Greater Smite ability and you will also get 1 point of STR per Great Smite you take
Level 26: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite II
Level 27: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite III
Level 28: Blackguard
Ability Points: STR +1
-From this point on you only need to put points into STR
Level 29: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite IV
Level 30: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite V
Level 32: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite VI
Level 33: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite VII
Level 35: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite VIII
Level 36: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite IX
Level 38: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite X
Level 39: Blackguard
Feats: Epic Prowess or Armor Skin
-This one you have two choices if you go with Armor Skin then I would bump in Epic Prowess before Legendary Weapon Focus (LWF)
Level 40: Rogue
Feats: Improved Evasion
-No damage on most saves for a reflex save for half damage and failed saves result in half damage.
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, UMD, and Tumble
*note: You can maximize tumble later however you might have more UMD then you will ever use so you can maximize either UMD or Tumble.
Legendary Levels:
You will use the standard skill point progression again here until noted otherwise. Your CC is now BG so all levels from this point on are BG you don’t get a choice you already made it.
Level 41:
You will get 1 Point of Strength for each Great Smite feat you took. I am not sure if this is only at lvl 41 or just the first time you use the Alter after becoming Immortal. You will also get 1 point of STR and 1 point of CHA every 5th lvl for an end total of +4 to each.
Level 42:
Feat: LSA Tumble
-This allows you to take Tumble as a class skill and you will use the following skill progression for lvls 43 through 57.
*New Skill Point Progression: Maximize skills in the following order Tumble, Discipline, Parry, CA, then CW
Level 45:
Feat: Armor Skin
-If you haven’t taken Epic Prowess do so now instead
Level 48:
Feat: LWF Warhammer
-This plus Epic Focus gives you a very good and much needed Attack Bonus (AB) boost
Level 51:
Feat: Over Crit
-This will help you do what this build is designed to do which is to hurt people/enemies/mobs
Level 54:
Feat: Dev Crit
-How can you not want this feat you get an extra multiplier on your critical hits
Level 57:
Feat: Great Charisma II
-You will have an odd number for your final CHA without this and you only get point modifiers for even numbers. Remember your CHA modifier is added to your saves as long as you’re evil alignment.
*Skill Points Note: Remember this level should get you 60 base points of Tumble which maxes out the AC bonus so you can go back to standard skill point progression.
Level 60:
Feat: Epic Fiend or Epic Skill Focus (Discipline, Parry, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, or UMD)
-Honestly this is kind of a free feat here you got all you must have at the lvls you had to have them at. Epic Fiend should let you go and find your secret, which gives you a more powerful fiend. Epic Skill Focus in any of the listed skills helps to boost you near the chosen skills max if not to their max.
You should finish with extra skill points, which I would dump into Concentration so you can more easily use Call to the Grave, which is one of the best abilities of the BG.
Your final AC should be 120 +/- 2 depending on gear and buffs and your AB will be 90 +/- 5 depending on weapons and buffs. These are on the low side but if you want to make a Blackguard this does it and is outside the conventional standards. Your saves will end up in the 60-70 depending on which save and your buffs and gear.
Final Notes:
Though this is not in the spirit of designing an open sub-race build, at least not to me, you can replace your Great Smites taken on non-BG bonus feats with Great Strengths to help you maul your way past enemies. I have this build at lvl 57 and tagged up to Illithid still needing Workshop so I can go to Hell you can find me using it as Yojimbo Blacksnake. This build is not ideal but it is fun and it does work so I offer it up to everyone who is looking to make a working BG from nothing.
10 Rogue/1 Fighter/29 Blackguard
This is the original version of my Black Snake Moan in the open sub forums. I think the new one is better but I figured why not just move this here for everyone. If you want to see the new version here is a link Black Snake Moan v2
Sub-race choice:
Yuan-ti
"Humanoid - Yuan-ti" - requires Human (changes Appearance) CHA +2, INT +1, DEX +1, WIS-3, STR -1m +5 spellcraft, sr5 +1/lvl, speaks Draconic
I chose Yuan-ti because out of all open sub-races it is the only to offer enough Charisma (CHA) boost needed to get your Great Smite I-X feats. It also has the advantage of being Human based for the extra level (lvl) 1 feat. You will need to give up your BG spells which does hurt you but BG does have a ring in the module to give you the Critical hit Immunity that the most important spell gives you. Humans will also receive extra skill points so you can easily max out all the skills you need.
Class choices:
-Rogue (Rog): I picked rogue for a few reasons one being that while leveling not too much is immune to your Sneak Attacks (SA). You will get an addition +1d6 SA for every odd numbered lvl of Rog helping you deal out. You also open up the options to put points into Tumble and Use Magic Device (UMD) skills. Taking 10 lvls of rogue gives you access to at least 1 of their special bonus feats. This class also lets you take the 5 points of Hide with no added cost for cross class.
-Fighter (Ftr): This is in here because the build is a little bit starved for feats so the extra feat for its first lvl helps. This piece of the build is entirely optional and you can place in 1 lvl of most any class you want but the extra feat is very useful.
-Blackguard (BG): This is the whole reason for the build but let us highlight a few of its benefits. This class has its own SA as well which stacks with any other SA and maxes out at +9d6 for the class. Greater Smiting is your friend and your purpose you get it at 20 lvls of BG and you can choose from 4 damage types: Cold, Negative, Divine, and Magic. You get Armor and Weapon proficiencies at lvl 1 and at lvl 2 you get the Dark Blessing feat, which adds your CHA modifier to your saves.
Level 1/Character Creation:
Race: Human
Sub-race: Yuan-ti
*note: sub-race is case sensitive and the Yuan-ti changes your appearance to a female only form
Class: Rogue
*note: taking this as your starting class helps to maximize skill points
Alignment: Any Evil
*note: only requirement is for BG to be evil the chaos and law axis does not matter unless you choose to replace Ftr with a class that does have a requirement.
Starting Ability Points:
Strength (STR): 17
Dexterity (DEX): 9
Constitution (CON): 8
Wisdom (WIS): 9
Intelligence (INT): 13
Charisma (CHA): 16
Skill Points:
Craft Armor (CA): 4
Craft Weapon (CW): 4
Hide: 4
Parry: 4
Tumble: 4
Use Magic Device (UMD): 4
Craft Armor
- Now grants +1 AC per 40 points.
Craft Weapon
- Now grants +1 AB per 40 points when wielding a weapon.
Parry
- Reduces damage taken from critical hits. The total damage taken is reduced by 1% per 2 points of Parry skill above 20, to a maximum of 50% with a skill of 120.
- A skill of 100 or higher grants immunity to Assassin Mortal Strike.
Tumble
- AC bonus is now capped at 12 - (PM + RDD AC bonuses), with a minimum cap of 6.
- If you have 5 points of AC from RDD levels, for example, the most AC you can get from Tumble ranks is 7.
- The 2 base AC from level 1 of Pale Master do not count in this calculation.
- Tumble can lower the duration of some knockdown attacks. If there is a chance of this, you will see a Tumble check when you are being knocked down.
- Now grants +1 AC per 40 points.
Craft Weapon
- Now grants +1 AB per 40 points when wielding a weapon.
Parry
- Reduces damage taken from critical hits. The total damage taken is reduced by 1% per 2 points of Parry skill above 20, to a maximum of 50% with a skill of 120.
- A skill of 100 or higher grants immunity to Assassin Mortal Strike.
Tumble
- AC bonus is now capped at 12 - (PM + RDD AC bonuses), with a minimum cap of 6.
- If you have 5 points of AC from RDD levels, for example, the most AC you can get from Tumble ranks is 7.
- The 2 base AC from level 1 of Pale Master do not count in this calculation.
- Tumble can lower the duration of some knockdown attacks. If there is a chance of this, you will see a Tumble check when you are being knocked down.
*note: tumble is the only one where it is uses your base skill points only
Feats:
Blooded
-This will enable you to take Legendary Skill Affinity (LSA) Tumble to keep taking Tumble in legendary levels.
Power Attack
-This is required for Cleave, which is required for Blackguard.
Sub-race Edits:
These are applied when you complete the Voyage and reach the docks so do not be alarmed that you’re not a scale covered Yuan-ti until after your hit the docks. If you do not get the edits check your spelling and capitalization of the sub-race.
Ability Point Edits:
STR: 16
DEX: 10
WIS: 6
INT: 14
CHA: 18
*note: CON is unchanged
Skill Point Edits:
Spellcraft: 5
*note: Your don’t need it but you get it
Other:
Spell Resistance: 5 + Lvl
Speaks Draconic
You may change your appearance to 1 of 3 choices available via the scrying device in your inventory. I do not recall the options but many people know these so ask around in game you can change at any time to any of the 3.
Pre-Epic Leveling:
Level 2: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Hide, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
*note: You now have enough Hide for BG so you can stop it here
Level 3: Rogue
Feats: Cleave
-This is a required feat for BG as well for Overwhelming and Devastating Critical
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 4: Rogue
Ability Points: CHA +1
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 5: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 6: Rogue
Feats: Toughness
-You are down 2 points of CON so you need this to just make up for that plus I try to fit it into any build I can
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 7: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 8: Rogue
Ability Points: CHA +1
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
*note: This level achieves your final BG requirement of +6 BAB
Level 9: Blackguard
Feats: Weapon Focus Warhammer
-All melee need to choose a Weapon Focus I went with Warhammer. Some good alternative weapons are Light Flail, Rapier, and Scimitar.
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
*note: For those who choose a different weapon you will need to replace all uses of Warhammer with their chosen weapon.
Level 10: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 11: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 12: Blackguard
Ability Points: CHA +1
Feats: Improved Critical Warhammer
-You want to maximize your damage potential and this will expand your critical hit range
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 13: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 14: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 15: Blackguard
Feats: Extra Smiting
-This will reduce the time between Greater Smites
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 16: Blackguard
Ability Points: CHA +1
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 17: Blackguard
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 18: Blackguard
Feats: Blind Fight
-Listen is a great skill to replace this with but it is a cross class skill in this build so you’re better off not using it and taking blind Fight instead
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 19: Rogue
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, Tumble, and UMD
Level 20: Fighter
Ability Points: CHA +1
Feats: Great Cleave
-This is required for Overwhelming Critical (Over Crit) and Devastating (Dev Crit) Critical
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Epic Levels:
All but the 40th level will be BG uses the standard skill point progressions for lvls 21-39.
Standard Skill Point Progression: Maximize CA, CW, Discipline, and Parry
Level 21: Blackguard
Feats: Great Charisma I
-You need to get to 25 CHA A.S.A.P. and you will have to take this to get there and have enough feats to take all 10 Great Smites.
Level 23: Blackguard
Feats: Epic Weapon Focus Warhammer
-You need this for Legendary Weapon Focus Warhammer to maximize your AB
Level 24: Blackguard
Ability Points: CHA +1
Feat: Great Smite I
-These will increase the power of your Greater Smite ability and you will also get 1 point of STR per Great Smite you take
Level 26: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite II
Level 27: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite III
Level 28: Blackguard
Ability Points: STR +1
-From this point on you only need to put points into STR
Level 29: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite IV
Level 30: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite V
Level 32: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite VI
Level 33: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite VII
Level 35: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite VIII
Level 36: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite IX
Level 38: Blackguard
Feats: Great Smite X
Level 39: Blackguard
Feats: Epic Prowess or Armor Skin
-This one you have two choices if you go with Armor Skin then I would bump in Epic Prowess before Legendary Weapon Focus (LWF)
Level 40: Rogue
Feats: Improved Evasion
-No damage on most saves for a reflex save for half damage and failed saves result in half damage.
Skill Points: Maximize CA, CW, Parry, UMD, and Tumble
*note: You can maximize tumble later however you might have more UMD then you will ever use so you can maximize either UMD or Tumble.
Legendary Levels:
You will use the standard skill point progression again here until noted otherwise. Your CC is now BG so all levels from this point on are BG you don’t get a choice you already made it.
Level 41:
You will get 1 Point of Strength for each Great Smite feat you took. I am not sure if this is only at lvl 41 or just the first time you use the Alter after becoming Immortal. You will also get 1 point of STR and 1 point of CHA every 5th lvl for an end total of +4 to each.
Level 42:
Feat: LSA Tumble
-This allows you to take Tumble as a class skill and you will use the following skill progression for lvls 43 through 57.
*New Skill Point Progression: Maximize skills in the following order Tumble, Discipline, Parry, CA, then CW
Level 45:
Feat: Armor Skin
-If you haven’t taken Epic Prowess do so now instead
Level 48:
Feat: LWF Warhammer
-This plus Epic Focus gives you a very good and much needed Attack Bonus (AB) boost
Level 51:
Feat: Over Crit
Overwhelming Critical
- Now adds +1 to critical hit threat range for the weapon chosen in addition to the normal effect.
- If you have the Weapon Master Ki Critical feat, the threat range expansion will not work for any weapon.
- Now adds +1 to critical hit threat range for the weapon chosen in addition to the normal effect.
- If you have the Weapon Master Ki Critical feat, the threat range expansion will not work for any weapon.
-This will help you do what this build is designed to do which is to hurt people/enemies/mobs
Level 54:
Feat: Dev Crit
Devastating Critical
- Now adds +1 to critical hit multiplier for the weapon chosen instead of the normal effect.
- Now adds +1 to critical hit multiplier for the weapon chosen instead of the normal effect.
-How can you not want this feat you get an extra multiplier on your critical hits
Level 57:
Feat: Great Charisma II
-You will have an odd number for your final CHA without this and you only get point modifiers for even numbers. Remember your CHA modifier is added to your saves as long as you’re evil alignment.
*Skill Points Note: Remember this level should get you 60 base points of Tumble which maxes out the AC bonus so you can go back to standard skill point progression.
Level 60:
Feat: Epic Fiend or Epic Skill Focus (Discipline, Parry, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, or UMD)
-Honestly this is kind of a free feat here you got all you must have at the lvls you had to have them at. Epic Fiend should let you go and find your secret, which gives you a more powerful fiend. Epic Skill Focus in any of the listed skills helps to boost you near the chosen skills max if not to their max.
You should finish with extra skill points, which I would dump into Concentration so you can more easily use Call to the Grave, which is one of the best abilities of the BG.
Your final AC should be 120 +/- 2 depending on gear and buffs and your AB will be 90 +/- 5 depending on weapons and buffs. These are on the low side but if you want to make a Blackguard this does it and is outside the conventional standards. Your saves will end up in the 60-70 depending on which save and your buffs and gear.
Final Notes:
Though this is not in the spirit of designing an open sub-race build, at least not to me, you can replace your Great Smites taken on non-BG bonus feats with Great Strengths to help you maul your way past enemies. I have this build at lvl 57 and tagged up to Illithid still needing Workshop so I can go to Hell you can find me using it as Yojimbo Blacksnake. This build is not ideal but it is fun and it does work so I offer it up to everyone who is looking to make a working BG from nothing.