|
Post by chainlink on Oct 3, 2006 8:34:47 GMT
I know not taking finesse does not preclude you using a shield but as the previous post talked about never switching from a bow I thought I'd mention that particular reason for using a shield.
|
|
|
Post by scarfinger68 on Oct 3, 2006 17:50:27 GMT
This build looks interesting and I have seen AA with DB bows tearing up monsters. I am cuurently making the Aqautic elf build but going 10 monk 2 wiz ( wiz is a +1/2 progression class) and 28 AA. I think the 2 wiz will give me +1 to will saves and +1 to AB. I alos took great fortitude and Iron will pre-epic for better saves. Up to lvl 29 and it seems decent fo far but its been mostly powerlvling and hasn't had to hold its own much. damage is a bit low but it always hits so far. Can't wait to get a DB bow.
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 3, 2006 18:45:38 GMT
True, if you wanted the extra will save you could drop an AA level, however I think in doing so you lose one fortitude and reflex save (not that this build doesn't have room for small shifts in saving throws), though I haven't crunched any of the numbers on that. Also I don't think you'll be getting any more AB than the original build due to the fact that you won't be hitting AA29 pre-legendary for Enchant Arrow 15. So while you will have a higher BAB, you will be missing out on +1 to your enhcant arrow, useful for both regular damage and for the scaled damages of the AA's special abilities. It also means that your AA's DC for Death Arrow will be one lower. Though if you think it's worth it, more power to you. Though I am curious, what feats did you decide to drop in order to take both Iron Will and Great Fortitude? I'm assuming Weapon Finesse...and Improved Critical?
|
|
|
Post by scarfinger68 on Oct 4, 2006 1:09:43 GMT
str * dex * con +2 int -2 wis +2 cha * Aquatic Elf Arcane Archer Base Race: Elf: str * dex +2 con -2 int * wis * cha * starting stats: str 8 dex 18 con 16 int 12 wis 8 cha 8 After Race mods : str 8 dex 20 con 16 Int 10 wis 8 cha 8
Planing on getting self conceal before lvl 40. Giving up Epic Prowless, Rapid shot or Armor skin. Also may give up 2 Greater dex feats. Not sure about the exact finaly build yet.
Considering I am giving up some feats to improve saves which may lower my AB I am not sure Rapid shot would be the best chioce. But with people reporting that u can have AB of 84'ish I don't think a few less AB will hurt to much.
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 4, 2006 1:24:12 GMT
Well, when you do get it sorted out make sure to make your own post for it as to not mix discussion on different builds. I'd definitely not advocate giving up Rapid Shot as one of the AA's damaging features is the number of attacks per round it can get (4 base + 1 haste + 1 Rapid Shot + 1 DB Bow...more than that if you're clever). And Armor Skin is sort of one of those feats that are strongly recommended (refer to Yue's General Effective Building Guidelines)
|
|
|
Post by scarfinger68 on Oct 4, 2006 3:29:50 GMT
Yue suggest:
Melee/AA builds: Armor skin Epic weapon focus Epic prowess Blind fight improved critical Weapon focus Rapid Shot (for AAs) Expertise/Improved Expertise (for melee)
I am aware of the suggestions by Yue and I know if he suggest it you should most likely take it. And I am not saying you should do anything I do. I am just trying to make a viable build with Higher saves. And if +2 AC kills the build then so be it. I am just doing it for fun. I think I will delete my post with the feats and build structure because I can see how it would get confusing.
And if your quoting Yue's suggestion than he would support the +1/2 lvl progression with Wizard which is the main reason I did it that way. Also I saw an AA with 10monk 2Bard 28 AA tearing everything up in beholders. I ventured forth into unknown territory by taking both save Iron will and fortitude pre epic ((suggested by yue if u have extra feats) which I don't have extra just giving up some feats which may kill the build in the long run))
It looks like Giving up 2 Greater Dex feats for the saves would be the best considering Reflex will be high. That way I can keep the AB up with Prowless and EWF and keep armor skin and also keep rapid shot. Drop finesse. I would essentially be giving up 1 AB, 1 AC and 1 reflex save to increase Will and Fortitude by +6.
But knowing this venture may fail I still jump into the fire....
|
|
|
Post by khaine on Oct 4, 2006 16:00:19 GMT
Please correct me If I have missed something but I have read through twice and have noticed that on the aquatic elf subrace modifications the dexterity starts at 18 for both planewalker and aquatic elf, and 17 for wraith, bu then the final stats show dexterity of 20 for planewalker and 20 wraith (correct) but only 18 still for aquatic elf. Since the bonus's stacks wouldn't this be 20 also? Am I making a mistake or are the figures wrong? I have to ask because I have no subraces xD
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 4, 2006 16:28:27 GMT
Starting subrace choices (verbatim): "Elf - Aquatic Elf" Con +2 Int -2 Breathes Water
| "Wraith" (Secret) Str -3 Dex +3 Int +1 Feat: Aura of Courage Feat: Perfect Health Immunity: Death Magic Immunity: Sleep +6 Hide/Move Silently
| "Planewalker" (Ultrarare) Str -2 Dex +2 Con +2 Int +2 Breathes Water Walks on Quicksand 5% Immunity to Acid/Cold/Fire/Electric/Sonic
|
Starting Abilities [Wraith] (Aq. Elf) 8 18 [17] (18) 14 [16] 16 [14] (14) 8 (12) 8
| STR DEX CON WIS INT CHA
| Modified Abilities (Aquatic Elf/Wraith/Planewalker) (8/5/6) (18/20/20) (16/16/16) (14/14/16) (10/9/10) (8/8/8)
|
Aquatic Elves do not get +2 to dex, so their dexterity will remain where you leave it upon character creation.
|
|
|
Post by amber on Oct 5, 2006 18:15:54 GMT
Tiefling works almost as good as planeswalker. Just no +2 to con and have to use up a ring slot in desert or underwater. Good for people like me who have played for a year or so and have not even found or won in lootsplit at least one ur subrace.
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 5, 2006 18:28:24 GMT
Well, you can use whatever subrace you want really. You just have to be prepared to take some penalties in certain areas. That's why I chose Wraith as the secret-but-not-UR subrace for this build, as the +3 dexterity allows you to take a point off dexterity at character creation to put into constitution to make up for the fact that Wraith gets no Con bonuses.
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 5, 2006 18:39:08 GMT
Edited original build to modify/introduce concepts to alleviate potential confusion and added optional feat selections to sacrifice attack power for saving throws.
|
|
|
Post by flynn01 on Oct 5, 2006 19:46:23 GMT
I've noticed recent AA builds don't utilize the Yukio subrace. Is there a reason?
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 5, 2006 19:51:31 GMT
I don't use it partially because I don't have it, and also because I feel that the +1 it has to AC/AB/etc for dexers isn't worth the hit in constitution you get...though it is essentially the same as an elf (gets -2 to con, and has weapon focus in longbow). So comparing it to Planewalker, I'd choose planewalker for the damage immunities and the extra abilities...but as has been said before, you're free to choose whatever subrace you want. I will add that though as an option if you don't want to take Elf as a race.
|
|
|
Post by velement on Oct 6, 2006 2:37:28 GMT
was about to ask the yukio question too actually... bleh, an UR race that's comparable to the tiny elves, and not to mention it looks ugly and have fixed skin... Time to upgrade the doggie race?
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Oct 6, 2006 4:34:31 GMT
I played around with it a bit and noticed that if you chose Yukio you actually end up losing ability points. The overall bonus to the Yukio is +2 (+4 dex -2 con) while the overall bonus to the planewalker is +4 (+2 dex +2 con +2 int -2 str). The major point of this being the fact that this particular build does not require you to max your primary stat, favoring a more even allocation among primary abilities (all of which get bonuses with planewalker, and not so much with yukio [+6 vs +2]). If you try to attempt the same even allocation with Yukio you will end up not being able to put any points into intelligence, having expended it all to achieve 16 dex, con, and wis on character creation.
|
|