Post by Yomi on Nov 9, 2006 22:27:04 GMT
As I think you saw, the recommended modification for this build from a few people was 35 bard 2 pal 3 monk if you really don't like the XP penalty. I did the standard build and didn't have any real issues with the XP penalty -- it was my first character to hit level 60.
The build was posted back when bardsong didn't count LL's, so even a level 60 character would be doing level 35 bardsong max and only 70 perform was needed. Bardsong now scales into the LL's, so you continue to get benefits by having perform as high as 110. Therefore you definitely shouldn't stop maxing perform. Whether you take epic skill focus perform depends on how much you want to optimize this and how much perform equipment you have and wear (e.g. bard helm, UR bard robes, immo bracers).
I didn't take LL enchant as it would offer me no benefit (as fusa points out, you're going to be at something like +28 from regular GMW, bardsong, and warcry -- way past the +20 cap, so a +14 GMW won't do anything). Take it only if you want this to be a super party buffing character and think that extra +1 will make a difference to your friends (remembering that they're already getting your +6 from bardsong on top of any GMWs!).
With good equipment all your saves will already be 60 or higher -- I'm not sure epic fort is necessary for this build.
I didn't follow the rationale of spending 2 to 4 feats on great wisdom. It raises your AC and will save by one for each two feats, which seems really expensive. I chose SF and GSF in transmute to keen non-slashing weapons, and focus in another weapon. If I were redoing, I might consider two feats on Great CON in the 20s (pushing out Great Dex). If Yue updates the build it'll probably have a few new options.
I looked at her tonight. AC is 122, all immunities are covered. fort save 60, reflex save 77, will save 62. Pre-song discipline is 92 or 112 with immo bracers. Perform is 107 or 122 with immo bracers. Post-song discipline is 108 or 117 with immo bracers, perform is 122 with either bracers. So I would be doing level 53 bardsong with my regular equipment (but level 55 thereafter including any curses), or swap in immo bracers if you really care. Tested weapons on practice dummy (self-buffed as normal, so +13 GMW, warcry, and bardsong):
The character sheet (which doesn't take into account the +20 cap) says 83 for single weapon, 79 / 79 for dual rapier, and 81 / 81 for rapier + dagger. I also thought it was interesting that the 5th attack (hasted) are all at 75 even in the dual wielding cases.
One nice thing about this build is that bardsong gives you so much dodge bonus that you can afford to wear boots that aren't the highest value. I used sunsoul (monk) boots for a long time for the harm and KD immunities, yet got the same dodge as if I wore +15 boots. Don't forget your high UMD for interesting equipment uses as well as scrolls.
The build was posted back when bardsong didn't count LL's, so even a level 60 character would be doing level 35 bardsong max and only 70 perform was needed. Bardsong now scales into the LL's, so you continue to get benefits by having perform as high as 110. Therefore you definitely shouldn't stop maxing perform. Whether you take epic skill focus perform depends on how much you want to optimize this and how much perform equipment you have and wear (e.g. bard helm, UR bard robes, immo bracers).
I didn't take LL enchant as it would offer me no benefit (as fusa points out, you're going to be at something like +28 from regular GMW, bardsong, and warcry -- way past the +20 cap, so a +14 GMW won't do anything). Take it only if you want this to be a super party buffing character and think that extra +1 will make a difference to your friends (remembering that they're already getting your +6 from bardsong on top of any GMWs!).
With good equipment all your saves will already be 60 or higher -- I'm not sure epic fort is necessary for this build.
I didn't follow the rationale of spending 2 to 4 feats on great wisdom. It raises your AC and will save by one for each two feats, which seems really expensive. I chose SF and GSF in transmute to keen non-slashing weapons, and focus in another weapon. If I were redoing, I might consider two feats on Great CON in the 20s (pushing out Great Dex). If Yue updates the build it'll probably have a few new options.
I looked at her tonight. AC is 122, all immunities are covered. fort save 60, reflex save 77, will save 62. Pre-song discipline is 92 or 112 with immo bracers. Perform is 107 or 122 with immo bracers. Post-song discipline is 108 or 117 with immo bracers, perform is 122 with either bracers. So I would be doing level 53 bardsong with my regular equipment (but level 55 thereafter including any curses), or swap in immo bracers if you really care. Tested weapons on practice dummy (self-buffed as normal, so +13 GMW, warcry, and bardsong):
rapier or dagger | rapier + rapier | rapier + dagger | |
attack 1 | 75 | 71 | 73 |
attack 2 | 70 | 66 | 68 |
attack 3 | 65 | 61 | 63 |
attack 4 | 60 | 56 | 58 |
haste | 75 | 75 | 75 |
offhand 1 | - | 71 | 73 |
offhand 2 | - | 66 | 68 |
The character sheet (which doesn't take into account the +20 cap) says 83 for single weapon, 79 / 79 for dual rapier, and 81 / 81 for rapier + dagger. I also thought it was interesting that the 5th attack (hasted) are all at 75 even in the dual wielding cases.
One nice thing about this build is that bardsong gives you so much dodge bonus that you can afford to wear boots that aren't the highest value. I used sunsoul (monk) boots for a long time for the harm and KD immunities, yet got the same dodge as if I wore +15 boots. Don't forget your high UMD for interesting equipment uses as well as scrolls.