|
Post by Grogbot on May 19, 2006 14:13:25 GMT
On the subject of Feats, I would have thought Divine Shield would have been a better choice than Blind Fighting. Hi Sonattine, & welcome I used to scorn blindfight till I realised the number of foes that use concealment. I love Divine Shield too, and I think this choice (especially with the HG change to Divine Shield, double duration + "shield damage") comes down to an offence vs defence call. Blind Fight is the only feat that helps against % concealment miss, plus its constant, whereas Divine Shield gives exotic damage. And re: Lore, visit the Wandering Wyrm ... But, your mileage may vary, and I'm not so good at post 40 builds, but that's what I experience sub-immortal - blindfight for attack build, divine shield for defence Grog
|
|
|
Post by sonattine on May 19, 2006 15:51:21 GMT
Cheers I do tend to favour defense, but I shall keep an open mind about Blind Fighting and an eye for concealed foe... I haven't yet finished visiting the town as I keep getting harassed by friendly people beeing helpful showing me around and taking me on fights. Faithfully
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on May 19, 2006 20:35:52 GMT
Blind fight only helps against a miss percentile effect applied to the attacker, not a concealment percentile effect applied to the defender. At least, that's how it's supposed to work, though I've never bothered to test it. Funky
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on May 19, 2006 22:50:03 GMT
On the subject of Feats, I would have thought Divine Shield would have been a better choice than Blind Fighting. You have no idea how many enemies will blind you at higher levels. In fact, there are some areas where I'm blinded the entire time I'm there, and the moment I use restoration to cure it, I'm blind again within 1-2 seconds. Also keep in mind that the AC bonus from divine shield is dodge, and with buffs like undeaths eternal foe you'll be maxed out most of the time. I'm not sure I see why you whould take the Fire Domain. Surely Earth is a better elemental choice. And with such high Charisma War and Strength are also valid options. Energy buffer and wall of fire/stone are 2 of the best spells on HG, energy buffer being the most important, and wall of stone just being plain useful. With only one use/day, war and strength aren't that useful considering how short their durations are.
|
|
|
Post by sonattine on May 20, 2006 18:37:09 GMT
I have now looked at the weapons on sale that will be accessible to the character... eventually Divine Shield has lost its interest a bit. I have also looked with more care at the spell modifications and I do see your point. However, I'm not sure about the Cure and Inflict Wound spells. Would it be worthwile to add skills points to Healing ? Would the leftover points be enough or should the Int be taken to 12 ? I reckon this character could benefit from more skill points. Thanks for the input. It's Faithfully
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on May 20, 2006 22:18:03 GMT
Keep in mind that many mobs in LL areas will be out of reach from your spells due to high SR, cure/inflict wounds included. I'm currently enjoying using cure/inflict wounds with my pure caster cleric though, as very few monsters are immune to it.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on May 20, 2006 23:06:07 GMT
Yup, expect to see low-level spell immunity popping up on boses, especially dragons. That, or percentile immunity, or something . . . probably mirroring harm immunity on creatures. Funky
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on May 21, 2006 0:55:05 GMT
Booo, getting nerfed again..... I'd like to point out that even with all the AB buffing spells in my book most bosses are pretty hard to hit with touch attacks as a cleric. I have to be really lucky on my AB roll to hit on a regular basis.
-EDIT- this was before I used divine power and had many LLs to penetrate high SR.
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on May 21, 2006 2:21:33 GMT
AB buffing has no effect on your ability to make a touch attack. Touch attacks are d20 + BAB + Str modifier.
With everything going into touch attacks (d20 + BAB + str modifier + 'attack increase' spells), I'd say that's good enough to handle most things in the module, and I think bosses should definitely be hard to hit with them.
EDIT: Wiki has betrayed me!
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on May 21, 2006 2:43:40 GMT
Um, yes it does. On Nerine for example, before using tensers my touch AB is 19, after its is 45 (+20 and +6 from str). The only AB buff that does not affect touch attacks is GMW.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on May 22, 2006 0:02:25 GMT
Booo, getting nerfed again..... I'd like to point out that even with all the AB buffing spells in my book most bosses are pretty hard to hit with touch attacks as a cleric. I have to be really lucky on my AB roll to hit on a regular basis. -EDIT- this was before I used divine power and had many LLs to penetrate high SR. The nerf has been planned since the changes to the spells, because touch attacks are massively overpowered with the LL system's inflated abs. We can't alter the touch attack roll to scale in difficulty as ab increases with LL, so we address the problem in a more roundabout, but feasible, way. Funky
|
|
|
Post by ryancian on May 22, 2006 0:41:20 GMT
Not sure if this is a correct place to address this but I think I saw someone mention it earlier (Crim I think) and didn't really see a sufficient answer. I'll preface this by stating I can't and probably won't be able to wrap my mind around the difficulties existent in the effort to balance the classes. In saying as such, I make this complaint. I feel like caster clerics are getting a super raw deal at the moment. If someone can prove me wrong then I'll be glad to change my opinion, but it seems like a caster cleric is slowly being nerfed into oblivion and I'm almost remiss to point out that I feel like the class will soon be obsolete. I base this opinion on a few truths: Implosion, a bread and butter spell for an offensive cleric has been nerfed, yet again, into oblivion. Now yes, I understand the spell doesn't respect death immunity but the spell, as it stands right now, is almost ridiculously useless. Until level 60, it won't be useful anywhere, period. Truth 2: A cleric's defensive prowess (or lack thereof). Cleric get no concealment spells so they're open to all attacks all the time. Clerics get no damage absorption as it stands right now, that matters anyway. A cleric's AC is kinda crappy, even with tumble bonus. It seems like most classes have something they excel at: fighters have ab, dexers have evasion and AC, PM's have a high wail DC, Wizards have soak damage spells and concealments of up to 85% and level 7 spell immunities, and clerics have religious zeal? I dunno, it just seems like clerics as casters need something to excel at and they don't have much. I understand we have earthquake which bypasses SR, but that only has so many uses, and a lot of monsters have high pos dmg soaks or are completely immune to pos dmg (like dachy). Like I said, if I'm wrong, please tell me what they should excel at so I can rethink my design, but I built my cleric around the highest implode DC possible and it's had 5 DC stripped from it in the past 2 or 3 updates?
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on May 22, 2006 0:57:47 GMT
Definitely the wrong place for this. If you think caster clerics are weak, you are doing something very wrong. The ARE weak defensively, but have the nastiest spells in HG at the moment - by design. 3 of the 5 ab the lost were BUGGED ab, above any they should've had and far beyond rediculous. The other 2 removed gave them higher dc than anything else in the game, and were removed because they still left the spell too powerful. Complaining that this would ruin a build built around getting the highest implode dc possible is just pure nonsense - evo is still by far the best focus for cleric, and any other measure to increase dc affect ALL spell dcs - something that is pretty critical for HG builds to begin with. And implode is still pound for pound the nastiest spell in the mod, though less so than it was. In any case, if you really think this bears further discussion, post in Bug/Problem report, or Drunken Monk. Funky
|
|
|
Post by jmaximum on Jul 7, 2006 7:08:28 GMT
so, where is the inital build setup for this character type? is aw someone posted a variation on their char, but is it possible to do without being an assimar race?
|
|
|
Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jul 7, 2006 12:49:27 GMT
heh well you could do it as a Fallen Angel, and get a couple of feats back to boot...
But you could try it as anything that gives wisdom or charisma, really...its just that it'd be harder because stat minuses would make a mess, and the +2 for charisma gives you 18, +12 for gear = 30 = +10 to saves and for divine might/shield.
Aasimar and Fallen Angel are just the best for it, because they have no negative stat adjustments, and give wisdom and charisma, which need to be relatively high so all points can go to strength for the tanking portion.
I personally sacrificed toughness and epic reflexes to pick up epic spell penetration...so in the end I'll be at a 63 Spell penetration with LL pen, which is 5 short of the max 68, but a lot better than 51. Because I also sacrificed 2 pts of con to gain 2 pts of int, so I have maxed concentration/discipline, 40 tumble, and HEAL skill...for the inflict/cures.
As to Funky...I've noticed that most boss critters seem to already have level 4 and below immune - at leasat hammer of the gods and ice storm don't stick on them, which already "fixes" the "problem" of cure/inflict crit. But I'd say there's no reason to give bosses immunity to the spells if the boss already has conceal, like Dustbone, because touch attacks are foiled by conceal percentage, and they have a defense there already. Stack on the fact that pure clerics don't have the AB of even a mage with Tenser's last I checked, I don't think you'll see a run on touch-attacking bosses to death.
|
|