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Post by atomicsomething on Sept 6, 2007 10:59:13 GMT
err ... what's the point of taking devastating critical on this build ? Documentation mentions that it does not stack with Ki Critical
sigh ... my bad.
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Post by starlandra on Sept 6, 2007 12:46:10 GMT
it is funny my rebuild was pretty much the same as what you posted... nice work!
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Post by stonewarrior on Sept 6, 2007 20:38:56 GMT
Hey Zerr, I like the build. I have been working on a similar bulid for my DD but am considering going 17 DD / 16 F / 7 WM for the extra feats. I think your starting Con might be off as you list it as 22 getting a +8 from a start of 14. I believe it should be 20 as a Dwarf / Kolyarut gets a +6 to Con. After looking at your build if you are able to make the Dex checks with 18 then I guess I will reconsider my decision to put just 1 point in Dexterity.
Peace, John.
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Sept 6, 2007 21:43:31 GMT
I have been working on a similar bulid for my DD but am considering going 17 DD / 16 F / 7 WM for the extra feats. quote] Do not see a point of 7 wep master if your going Dev crit feat as you need only 5 wep master to get everything to stack allowing 2 more DD levels
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Post by Acaos on Sept 6, 2007 22:06:14 GMT
Do not see a point of 7 wep master if your going Dev crit feat as you need only 5 wep master to get everything to stack allowing 2 more DD levels Ki Critical from 7 WM gives you +1 more crit range over Overwhelming Critical. If you went on to 10 WM, that'd be +1 more AB as well (-not- that this build is short on AB with 40 levels in Tier 1 classes). Acaos
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Sept 6, 2007 22:50:48 GMT
Yea acoas i realize that but isnt he using light flail? so the difference is what? 10-20 or 11-20? either one works and if i can get 3 more DR out of 11-20 im going for the 11-20 ab isnt an issue with this guy either way imo
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Post by zerragon on Sept 7, 2007 18:11:17 GMT
Updated, and I reincarnated again to polish it. Went with new Level progression, and fit in Blind fight again. Thanks for the input folks.
I disagree, as Physical dmg immunity on this guy allready is extremely good, so 3/- more points isnt worth much. I prefer 5% more crit chance.
High AB is nice with a high crit weapon, because you will hit on most attacks that crits (all attacks will have decent AB)
30 modified Dex will occacionally fail, but with Demi and 32, you should be immune.
Could do if you wanted Disarm/KD feats. But more dwarven bonus feats gives more epic feats, as well as I plan to use a Disarm pandect on this one when I get hold of it
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Post by Raj on Sept 8, 2007 23:53:10 GMT
noticed this post a few days after i reinc my good ole tin can :S but yes, it's the way to go if you're no longer happy about the rdd splash
I already used my race upgrade choice so had to keep it battlerager, but opted for 6 fighter 16 wm 18 dd, same number of bonus feats, 2 more ab over 3/ dr and 2 less stances, sounds better imo (you need only 4 intimidate for wm) ; no idea why the newb though it's a bur-subby only build, as the ur choice fits very well. Still debating if it's worth to burn one of my pandects on it, will check in hells how good is having 100 listen ( took the feats for that ) and no blindfight; if it's not working good i'll use that book, if not maybe knockdown, but not much important.
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Post by Raj on Sept 9, 2007 10:42:34 GMT
toh, UR version ( I never write builds on paper so might forget something, but it works in game ): Battlerager ( +4 str, +3 con, -2 int, -3 cha, +5 intimidate, dodge, toughness ) STR 15 -> 19 DEX 14 CON 17 -> 20 INT 15 -> 13 WIS 8 CHA 6 -> 3 all points in STR ( will end at 44 w/o items ], max discipline and listen, wait LL to max tumble; order of feats isn't really important so if you think you'll need armor skin before epic weapon focus is up to you, just beware to the usual req / bonus feats. lvl 1->6, fighter [3 feats, 4 bonus feats] blooded, weapon focus: warhammer ( ), expertise, mobility, spring attack, whirlwind, power attack lvl 7->12, weapon master [2 feats] cleave, improved critical lvl13->20, dwarven defender [2 feats] lighting reflex, iron will lvl 21->30, weapon master [4 feats, 2 bonus feats] great strengh I-III, great cleave, epic weapon focus, overwhelming criticals lvl 31->40 dwarven defender [3 feats, 2 bonus feats] great strengh IV-V, devastating criticals, epic prowess, armor skin lvl 41->60 [7 feats] LSA: tumble, ESF: listen, LSF: listen, LWF, Lreflex, Lwill, improved expertise feel free to ignore listen and take blindfight instead of improved expertise, with 2 more great strengh feats, but I'll try out this version; spare points can then go into parry, not a lot useful on a crit immune toon with huge DR if you ask me. Free subrace: Arctic-Dwarf ( +2 str, +1 con, -2 dex, -2 cha ) STR 15 -> 17 DEX 15->13 CON 17 ->18 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 6 -> 4 2 less feats and 1 more skill to max (just because there was a spare stat point that ended into int), so drop esf/lsf listen and imp expertise for blindfight, drop listen skill and get parry+another one, even lore just to bank junk
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Post by stonewarrior on Sept 10, 2007 20:30:38 GMT
Zerragon / Raj - can either of you comment as to the effectiveness of Parry (Zerragon) and Listen (Raj)? I have yet to redo mine and wondered how both skills are working.
I do not use Stoneguard very often due to it being pretty imoble (I need to work the keys...) so I am wondering if Parry would be beneficial. On the otherhand I am curious if Listen would help me cut through conceal a bit better.
Anyway, thanks.
Peace, John.
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Post by Raj on Sept 10, 2007 23:11:19 GMT
ah i never use stonestance too on DD as I usually soak enough that the crit immunity is redundant, can always drink a pot if mobs score a lucky row of criticals ^^
listen maxed is better ( with hell play in mind ) than couple points into strenght as u hit 3-5% more times; being it a class skill for dd and having many spare points cuz of 13 int needed for wm it's not a real sacrifice
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Post by flynn01 on Sept 11, 2007 20:47:05 GMT
I'm a little discouraged that I can't find a good DD build for Howler (my only BURR).
Koylarut just does it better, especially with all of it's stat bouses. (Net of +12 vs. Howler's +6). Even Salamander made a better tin can than Howler.
Even Warchanter with its 16 base CHA requirement is difficult to pull off.
Edit for clarification: Not saying Howler will make a *bad* Hellsamasher or tincan or whatnot. Just saying the, for the Dwarven Defender themed BURR, the current seemingly effective builds have other BURRs as better.
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Post by stonewarrior on Sept 11, 2007 21:15:52 GMT
One of the problems with using Battlerager or Howler is the ability penalties. BR's -2 Int hurts when going using WM levels as well as skill points while the -3 Wis from Howler gives you a minus for your Will save...a save that is already lacking on DD's. The -3 Cha penalty for both subraces is brutal if you want to do Warchanter route while Dwarf Cha penalty hurts going the Tin Can route.
That said, I think both Battlerager and Howler can make very solid DD's. Of course pretty much every Str melee toon is better with Kolyarut.
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Post by Jenna on Sept 18, 2007 16:52:58 GMT
Nice work! Still working on getting myself a Battlerager subby. I love me dwarf o' steel and am working on figuring out how in the bloody nine hells to reincarnate her to take advantage of the battle hardened and save feats...coming soon: Return of the Dwarf of Steel (in theatres everywhere).
Jenna
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Post by zerragon on Sept 28, 2007 6:27:08 GMT
A little note for perfection: 16 WM for same amount of feats and 2 more ab, at the cost of 3/- dmg resistance. Cudos to Raj for this discovery as it seems like a better deal, though, not enough to make me reincarnate it again
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