Post by Yomi on Dec 18, 2007 5:29:03 GMT
This is my update of Claus' Tin Can build. I've been playing DD/RDD's for a while and have a lot of fun with them.
The advantages of the build are great defense through relatively high AC, high physical damage immunity (75-90% in typical gear in town), total fire immunity, lots of HP, and high enough DEX so you won't get KD'd all the time in the hells. AB and damage output are pretty good and if you get the 5 crit feats the crits with a bastard sword are quite high. You get 9 uses of DD crit immunity, though you won't need to use it too often.
My two DD/RDD's, both single demi, no artifact, and buffed up with GMW, bardsong, prayer, and Girding. Dhajar took Craft Weapon, while Dharfal took Craft Armor, which is why the AC difference.
I'll show the Howler version first. It's quite viable with other races though feats are tighter.
Race: Dwarf Howler (BUR subrace)
STR: 15 -> 21
DEX: 14
CON: 14 -> 16 (dwarf) -> 22
WIS: 9 -> 6
INT: 12
CHA: 13 -> 11 (dwarf) -> 8 [forced to start this high]
All stat points into STR.
Level progression: 5 Bard, 4 RDD, 1 Bard, 10 DD, 11 RDD, 5 DD, 1 Bard, 3 DD. You will have to change alignment at level 11 and level 37. You can take the last bard level at any level 37-40 -- I like to take it a little early so I don't have to worry about alignment when in the middle of Lolth/Immo, but really it doesn't matter as long as it's 37 or later.
Feats from Howler: Toughness, Dodge, Weapon Prof: Exotic.
Pre-Epic Feats:
1: Luck of Heroes
3: Lightning Reflexes
6: Iron Will
9: Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
12: Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
15: Power Attack
18: Cleave
Epic Feats:
21: Great Str 1
24: Great Cleave
27: Overwhelming Critical: Bastard Sword
30: Devastating Critical: Bastard Sword, Armor Skin
33: Great Str 2
35: Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
36: Great Str 3
39: Great Str 4
40: Epic Prowess
Stats at 40: STR 41, DEX 14, CON 24, WIS 6, INT 14, CHA 10.
Legendary Feats:
42: Legendary Luck
45: LWF Bastard Sword
48: Legendary Reflexes
51: Legendary Will
54: Great Str 5
57: ESF: Listen
60: LSF: Listen
Stats at 60: STR 52, DEX 14, CON 24, WIS 6, INT 14, CHA 10.
AB: 97, 92, 87, 82, 97 (with full +20 bonus)
Saves: 65 Fort, 65 Reflex, 68 Will
HP: 1362
AC: 122-126 using UR/Illithid gear, 137+ with Girding, Strongheart, and Asmo item.
Skill Points: Put 8 points in Lore to allow RDD levels. Max Discipline at all levels. Put points in Tumble at all Bard levels but only to 35 total. Max UMD at all Bard levels so you can read scrolls. After your last bard level put maximum points into Listen (you'll not have quite enough to max it yet). In Legendary levels you'll max Discipline and Listen, and at about level 44 you'll start getting excess points. Choose one of either Craft Armor (for +1 AC) or Craft Weapon (for +1 AB).
Some considerations
Equipment:
For Asmo artifacts, if you use the Asmo Helm you get +12 to all stats, unlimited level 60 UEFs (this is huge in Pyramid and Hells), and very nice exotic resists. It will make your Bestial Belt completely redundant as well as allowing you to use a different cloak with minimal loss (e.g. Cloak of the Elements). You could also use the Asmo cloak for great immunities. Once improved, the Asmo armor might also be a decent choice.
Edit: Fixed level progression, thanks Swifty!
The advantages of the build are great defense through relatively high AC, high physical damage immunity (75-90% in typical gear in town), total fire immunity, lots of HP, and high enough DEX so you won't get KD'd all the time in the hells. AB and damage output are pretty good and if you get the 5 crit feats the crits with a bastard sword are quite high. You get 9 uses of DD crit immunity, though you won't need to use it too often.
My two DD/RDD's, both single demi, no artifact, and buffed up with GMW, bardsong, prayer, and Girding. Dhajar took Craft Weapon, while Dharfal took Craft Armor, which is why the AC difference.
I'll show the Howler version first. It's quite viable with other races though feats are tighter.
Race: Dwarf Howler (BUR subrace)
STR: 15 -> 21
DEX: 14
CON: 14 -> 16 (dwarf) -> 22
WIS: 9 -> 6
INT: 12
CHA: 13 -> 11 (dwarf) -> 8 [forced to start this high]
All stat points into STR.
Level progression: 5 Bard, 4 RDD, 1 Bard, 10 DD, 11 RDD, 5 DD, 1 Bard, 3 DD. You will have to change alignment at level 11 and level 37. You can take the last bard level at any level 37-40 -- I like to take it a little early so I don't have to worry about alignment when in the middle of Lolth/Immo, but really it doesn't matter as long as it's 37 or later.
Feats from Howler: Toughness, Dodge, Weapon Prof: Exotic.
Pre-Epic Feats:
1: Luck of Heroes
3: Lightning Reflexes
6: Iron Will
9: Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
12: Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
15: Power Attack
18: Cleave
Epic Feats:
21: Great Str 1
24: Great Cleave
27: Overwhelming Critical: Bastard Sword
30: Devastating Critical: Bastard Sword, Armor Skin
33: Great Str 2
35: Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
36: Great Str 3
39: Great Str 4
40: Epic Prowess
Stats at 40: STR 41, DEX 14, CON 24, WIS 6, INT 14, CHA 10.
Legendary Feats:
42: Legendary Luck
45: LWF Bastard Sword
48: Legendary Reflexes
51: Legendary Will
54: Great Str 5
57: ESF: Listen
60: LSF: Listen
Stats at 60: STR 52, DEX 14, CON 24, WIS 6, INT 14, CHA 10.
AB: 97, 92, 87, 82, 97 (with full +20 bonus)
Saves: 65 Fort, 65 Reflex, 68 Will
HP: 1362
AC: 122-126 using UR/Illithid gear, 137+ with Girding, Strongheart, and Asmo item.
Skill Points: Put 8 points in Lore to allow RDD levels. Max Discipline at all levels. Put points in Tumble at all Bard levels but only to 35 total. Max UMD at all Bard levels so you can read scrolls. After your last bard level put maximum points into Listen (you'll not have quite enough to max it yet). In Legendary levels you'll max Discipline and Listen, and at about level 44 you'll start getting excess points. Choose one of either Craft Armor (for +1 AC) or Craft Weapon (for +1 AB).
Some considerations
- I chose Bastard Sword. It has a great crit range and you can read your own keen scrolls. However the damage types on the Dis version leave a lot to be desired (this is probably intentional). Good alternatives would be Whip, Light Flail, or Katana. I think the Dis Light Flail has great damage types.
- You do not need Blind Fight on this build if you max Listen skill. DD's have Defensive Awareness which should cancel almost all the negative effects of not having Blindfight. My DD has Listen at 98 wearing no +listen gear, so with bardsong and ideally clairaudience will hit or get close to 127. This definitely helps hit concealed mobs. If you're really worried about it, either save space to read the Blindfight pandect, or take Blindfight instead of LSF Listen as your last feat.
- I chose to put the last two feats into pushing Listen as high as possible. You could take Great STR feats instead to raise AB and get another point of physical damage immunity. If you were very concerned about defense you could take Expertise and Improved Expertise but I really don't think it's necessary. I rarely bother with DD critical immunity for instance.
- Any more than 15 DEX and you will be unable to use Pentavite Shield after double demi. This dex score is enough to not get KD'd by dex mobs or entangled by erinyes most of the time, though you're not immune.
- Planewalker gives 5% to all elements and is both striding and water breathing, which makes it quite convenient especially if you don't have lots of gear. It also takes no damage from Malebranche dwarf tossing. The stats certainly aren't optimal for a str tank but it's quite good enough and has the little bonuses that pop up (e.g. free ring/amulet slot in a lot of places).
- You will end up with 35 points to put in another skill. I'd recommend either Craft Armor for +1 AC or Craft Weapon for +1 AB. You'll need to either have +INT gear or bardsong to get the benefit, but that's pretty usual.
- Conceal is your friend. Get a bard to cast extended displacement on you when possible -- it makes a big difference. My DD uses the Rona Breach Boots that have 4 uses of displacement (50% conceal for 50 rounds) for the times when things get hectic (e.g. soloing Overmind chamber, or Hells bosses) and nobody's casting it on you.
- Get someone to make you scrolls of Mindblank, Stone to Flesh, Black Blade, Greater Sanctuary, Gust, and Mord. Keen if you need it and use a slashing weapon.
Equipment:
- Armor: A medium armor such as the UR Druid armor will give 3 more AC at the cost of 10% physical vs. heavy armors. I'd also consider looking at Shaamros, Penumbrium Plate, or Ssithrak Scale for implosion immunity, Splint of Elril for immunity to stoning in Desert/DB/Stygia, the various beholder armors for their 25% to an element (my DD's often use Arakin's and I think both did Nessus using it), and of course various Hells set armors (e.g. Osyluth Scales, Stygian Ice, Dance of Blades, etc.).
- Cloak: Ectoplasmic Weave.
- Helm: Unitary Focus. Great for the DEX and WIS.
- Shield: Pentavite or Wings of the Storm.
- Bracers: Brazen Defiance or Audacious Provocation for outside of Hells or if you have Fear/Poison immunity on another item. Touch of the Grave if you don't have the immunity elsewhere (e.g. Osy Scales, Ainafea's Belt, Legendary Boots of Defense, Lich King amulet, Amulet of the Pharoah, etc.)
- Amulet: Strongheart for the AC, or Amulet of the Pharoah are ideal. The Pharoah amulet may give more freedom in other areas. Since you have DD and RDD levels, you get a minimum of +16 natural armor, which lets you use such things as the Legendary Defender amulet or Chain of Solidarity without suffering. Other choices include Adaptation, Jaelynix, Frozen Tear, Min Locket, or Lich King -- depending on your needs and other equipment.
- Belt: Bestial Belt from Illithids. Nice stats and having 30/- DR to divine is quite nice.
- Boots: I would typically use whichever UR elemental boots I needed the most of at the time, either acid or cold. For hells runs I think the Rona Breach Boots are great for breach immunity (Cornugons) as well as the displacement if needed.
- Rings: As needed. A UR combination that I used extensively was Anhur + Rhemoraz.
For Asmo artifacts, if you use the Asmo Helm you get +12 to all stats, unlimited level 60 UEFs (this is huge in Pyramid and Hells), and very nice exotic resists. It will make your Bestial Belt completely redundant as well as allowing you to use a different cloak with minimal loss (e.g. Cloak of the Elements). You could also use the Asmo cloak for great immunities. Once improved, the Asmo armor might also be a decent choice.
Edit: Fixed level progression, thanks Swifty!