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Post by illandous on Sept 23, 2007 22:17:22 GMT
First time poster, long time reader. Love the topic, god bless the build forum. Accursed Pariah. built on Choas Gnome Pros: HP and regen, Crit Immun, +15 GMW Cons: feat poor, reflex save Rip it up people. Epic toughness > Epic Damage resist? like the LL feats? would you rather see more Great Con. all this and more below. 01: Sorcerer(1): Luck of Heros 02: Barbarian(1) 03: Barbarian(2): Toughness, {Uncanny Dodge I} 04: Sorcerer(2): CON+1, (CON=21) 05: Sorcerer(3) 06: Sorcerer(4): Still Spell 07: Sorcerer(5) 08: Sorcerer(6): CON+1, (CON=22) 09: Sorcerer(7): Lightning Reflexes 10: Sorcerer(8) 11: Sorcerer(9) 12: Sorcerer(10): CON+1, Spell Focus: Transmutation, (CON=23) 13: Barbarian(3) 14: Barbarian(4) 15: Barbarian(5): Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation 16: Barbarian(6): CON+1, (CON=24) 17: Barbarian(7) 18: Sorcerer(11): Spell Penetration 19: Sorcerer(12) 20: Sorcerer(13): CON+1, (CON=25) 21: Sorcerer(14): Greater Spell Penetration 22: Sorcerer(15) 23: Sorcerer(16) 24: Sorcerer(17): CON+1, Epic Spell Penetration, (CON=26) 25: Barbarian(8): 26: Barbarian(9): 27: Barbarian(10): Iron Will 28: Barbarian(11): CON+1, (CON=27) 29: Barbarian(12) 30: Barbarian(13): Great Constitution I, (CON=28) 31: Barbarian(14) 32: Barbarian(15): CON+1, (CON=29) 33: Barbarian(16): Great Constitution II, (CON=30) 34: Barbarian(17) 35: Barbarian(18) 36: Barbarian(19): CON+1, Great Constitution III, (CON=32) 37: Barbarian(10) 38: Barbarian(21) 39: Barbarian(22): Great Constitution IV, (CON=33) 40: Sorcerer(18): CON+1, (CON=34) Sorcerer(18), Barbarian(22), Chaos Gnome STR: 6 DEX: 10 CON: 20 (34) WIS: 12 INT: 14 CHA: 20 Hitpoints: 852 Skillpoints: 212 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 32/24/19 Saving Throws @ 60 = gussing around 63/62/57 Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +9, Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +5 BAB: 23 AB (max, naked): 22 (melee), 24 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 11/21 Spell Casting: Sorcerer(9) Alignment Changes: 0 Concentration 43(57), Discipline 42(40), Craft Armor 42(42), Spellcraft 43(45), Taunt 42(47) LL levels: Heavy Armor Prof. LL Reflex LL Will LL Luck of Heros LLS Pen ESF Trans LLSF Trans Edit: Updated build for 1 more barb lvl Replaced Epic damage reductions with Epic toughness Replaced the Parry with Craft Armor Removed fighter lvl and took Heavy Armor Prof
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Post by shaengarne on Sept 24, 2007 16:34:03 GMT
What spells are you going to cast? I guess you want nearly every trans spell, for armor+stone skin, gmw +15, stone bones. But what else? Is you main goal a tank with some buff spells and flesh to stone? I created (on paper) a pariah with LSF: Necro, Illusion (one from the book) and Trans. This build gets only 60 con, but with the LSF the dc should be accepteable. The spells I chose usually decrease enemy abilities, skills, movement, and so on. Not that many damaging spells (because I havent taken LSF: Evo) but some save-or-die-spells from necro school. I wanted the build to be a party buffer (GMW +15, stone skin with LSF: Trans, special pariah magic weapon, falme weapon, displacement with LSF: Illusion) and a debuffer, so I took slow, neg energy burst, bestow curse, enervation, mass blindness/deafness, balagarn's, terrifying rage, ...) with some instant death spells (wail, flesh to stone, FoD, ...) and not neglect the most important self buffing spells (tenser's, spell mantle, elemental shield, acid sheath, GS). So this one would be more a supportive caster (maybe like a bard), not a tank with cons like only 60 con, 45 reflex save (didn't even bother taking feats, because I would never reach 60), no extend spell, ...
I have no idea whether this build would be doable (I guess not, I'm not going to make it anyway), but you should try to give some description of your build...what does it contribute to a group: tank, damage dealer, caster, healer, support, ...?
shaengarne
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Post by Raj on Sept 24, 2007 16:56:32 GMT
I'd drop the epic damage reduction feats, and the 2 warrior levels as they only give you 2 useless feats. Useless because EDR doesn't stack with stoneskin, and you can have a full premonition going pure, that being /+15 will work vs many foes, beside full casterlev spells and maybe couple more points into con. Ignore parry, you're crit immune as long as you remember to recast stone bones
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Sept 24, 2007 22:49:55 GMT
You going tank or caster i can tell ya first hand a sorc/Barb split almost down the middle is a total failure in practice i made a build like this it failed horribly.
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Post by illandous on Sept 25, 2007 12:05:28 GMT
I'd drop the epic damage reduction feats, and the 2 warrior levels as they only give you 2 useless feats. Useless because EDR doesn't stack with stoneskin, and you can have a full premonition going pure, that being /+15 will work vs many foes, beside full casterlev spells and maybe couple more points into con. Ignore parry, you're crit immune as long as you remember to recast stone bones I took the 2 fighter lvls to gain heavy armor proficency. I didn't know that the damage reduction would not stack. I'll change the build to take 1 epic toughness for the extra HP. Good point on the parry. Adjusting the build accordingly. Thank you for the input.
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Post by illandous on Sept 25, 2007 12:08:32 GMT
What spells are you going to cast? I guess you want nearly every trans spell, for armor+stone skin, gmw +15, stone bones. But what else? Is you main goal a tank with some buff spells and flesh to stone? I created (on paper) a pariah with LSF: Necro, Illusion (one from the book) and Trans. This build gets only 60 con, but with the LSF the dc should be accepteable. The spells I chose usually decrease enemy abilities, skills, movement, and so on. Not that many damaging spells (because I havent taken LSF: Evo) but some save-or-die-spells from necro school. I wanted the build to be a party buffer (GMW +15, stone skin with LSF: Trans, special pariah magic weapon, falme weapon, displacement with LSF: Illusion) and a debuffer, so I took slow, neg energy burst, bestow curse, enervation, mass blindness/deafness, balagarn's, terrifying rage, ...) with some instant death spells (wail, flesh to stone, FoD, ...) and not neglect the most important self buffing spells (tenser's, spell mantle, elemental shield, acid sheath, GS). So this one would be more a supportive caster (maybe like a bard), not a tank with cons like only 60 con, 45 reflex save (didn't even bother taking feats, because I would never reach 60), no extend spell, ... I have no idea whether this build would be doable (I guess not, I'm not going to make it anyway), but you should try to give some description of your build...what does it contribute to a group: tank, damage dealer, caster, healer, support, ...? shaengarne You would be correct. Your a buffer, quasi tank in this roll. Great for Grabby hands and flesh to stone. And that's how I see this build playing out. In the hells your looking at crowd control with this build. You do get the wall and one other epic of your choice with the build. I'll update the above build accordingly
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Post by illandous on Sept 25, 2007 12:12:57 GMT
You going tank or caster i can tell ya first hand a sorc/Barb split almost down the middle is a total failure in practice i made a build like this it failed horribly. Um, Thanks, if you have some time, please tell us how it failed without making a blanket statement of a total failure. I'm sure that you were able to contribute something to the party. You need the Sorc lvls to get lvl 9 spells. You will get one of them. With the caster gear selection giving so many lvl 9 spells It would be a shame to throw all those spell slots away. Besides, if you picked timestop as your lvl 9 spell. It's like a heal pot that would upset the party. (Unless you TS and then go into grabby mode)
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Post by borges on Sept 25, 2007 14:36:32 GMT
Even Barb/Sorc split works just fine. I've had a blast leveling my 20/20 pariah. A few thoughts:
1. I'd ditch the fighter level and just take the Heavy Armor feat outright. Spell penetration is very important vs. the critters you will be stoning/grabbying on your Hells adventures.
2. Way too many skill points, IMO. The 40 points you pay for 1 craft armor AC would get you 4 AC by cross-classing tumble. I'd stick with Concentration (making sure to take Sorc at 40 and max it, since it's not a Barb class feat), Discipline, and cross-class Tumble. Leave spellcraft and taunt to the mages and bards, respectively.
3. 20 CHA is a waste. Stop at 19, which gets you lvl 9 spells. Redistribute those stat points and the ones you save on INT into WIS. Ideally, you could get by with only Epic Will, rather than Iron + Legendary.
4. If you're actually leveling, rather than reincarnating, this build, consider using the Spell Penetration book and taking Necro foci as feats. You have enough rages to get through the very limited SR you will encounter pre-LLs, and it's very nice to mass entire maps and Wail them away.
5. I just gave up on Reflex save, which maxes out at 45 on my build. You'll never see my pariah in the desert, but it enabled me to take another metamagic (Empowered) and LSF Necro.
Cheers, Perin
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Sept 26, 2007 6:20:30 GMT
Even Barb/Sorc split works just fine. I've had a blast leveling my 20/20 pariah. A few thoughts: 1. I'd ditch the fighter level and just take the Heavy Armor feat outright. Spell penetration is very important vs. the critters you will be stoning/grabbying on your Hells adventures. 2. Way too many skill points, IMO. The 40 points you pay for 1 craft armor AC would get you 4 AC by cross-classing tumble. I'd stick with Concentration (making sure to take Sorc at 40 and max it, since it's not a Barb class feat), Discipline, and cross-class Tumble. Leave spellcraft and taunt to the mages and bards, respectively. 3. 20 CHA is a waste. Stop at 19, which gets you lvl 9 spells. Redistribute those stat points and the ones you save on INT into WIS. Ideally, you could get by with only Epic Will, rather than Iron + Legendary. 4. If you're actually leveling, rather than reincarnating, this build, consider using the Spell Penetration book and taking Necro foci as feats. You have enough rages to get through the very limited SR you will encounter pre-LLs, and it's very nice to mass entire maps and Wail them away. 5. I just gave up on Reflex save, which maxes out at 45 on my build. You'll never see my pariah in the desert, but it enabled me to take another metamagic (Empowered) and LSF Necro. Cheers, Perin 1. Spell penetration of the pariah is based solely on the CON level you could go 11 sorc and 6 barb then the rest into fighter and you could get 60 Spell penetration if you had 60 con. but i agree fighter lvls should go 4. All spell penetration feats are useless and free up soo many when using con as your spell penetration Also about my split pariah. He had troubles offensively only he was amazing at buffing allies but after that has little to buff himself. I prefer a build to focus in sorc or in barb almostexclusively if your barb based you wouldnt really ever use the caster gear and if your sorc based you couldnt live without it. he also was split enough his hp suffered a ( a good few hundred ) which cost me regen and such and decreases his ability to stand still.
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Post by Raj on Sept 26, 2007 10:42:37 GMT
4. All spell penetration feats are useless thx for demonstrating again your lack of experience, but don't mess with other players builds to the point of cripple them; my pariah has 72 con, leg spell penetration, and still carries mord scrolls for some nasty critters. Spell penetration feats are useful.
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Post by mrbadexample on Sept 26, 2007 11:11:52 GMT
The minute you say spell pen is useless in any form of a caster build you'll be flamed in ways you don't want to know. Spell pen is the Casters AB so to speak. Think of it this way it would be like telling a tank that weapon focus feats are useless.
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Sept 27, 2007 3:42:51 GMT
*sigh* have either of you checked the spell penetration checks... they are equal to 1d20+SP vs SR correct? what im saying is my pariah with 60 charisma has 1d20+60 even with epic spell penetration and the effect of pariahs spells are: the base SP of spells = con thus with PARIAH CASTERS ONLY the SP feats are useless PLZ get the context andf not the out of context statements
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Sept 27, 2007 3:43:51 GMT
4. All spell penetration feats are useless thx for demonstrating again your lack of experience, but don't mess with other players builds to the point of cripple them; my pariah has 72 con, leg spell penetration, and still carries mord scrolls for some nasty critters. Spell penetration feats are useful. And dont personally attack me with that "thx for demonstrating again your lack of experience" crap okay? Also enjoyed the fact you modified my quote to remove its context to make me seem dumb.
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Post by Acaos on Sept 27, 2007 3:56:30 GMT
*sigh* have either of you checked the spell penetration checks... they are equal to 1d20+SP vs SR correct? what im saying is my pariah with 60 charisma has 1d20+60 even with epic spell penetration and the effect of pariahs spells are: the base SP of spells = con thus with PARIAH CASTERS ONLY the SP feats are useless PLZ get the context andf not the out of context statements Actually, the base SP of spells = Con -only- when you are using Rage. This does, however, let Pariahs skip some Spell Penetration feats if they wish, since it is quite possible for them to get Constitution above 60. Acaos
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Post by borges on Sept 27, 2007 4:15:23 GMT
I have in fact read all the changes and stand by my comments. I even know how long rage lasts and how many you get per rest! Imagine that!
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