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Post by sagil on Nov 15, 2008 1:02:11 GMT
A quick question for clarification: If a Pariah rages, is his spell penetration check a plain Con + d20, ignoring all spell penetration feats? Not Con + SP Feats + d20?
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Post by borges on Nov 15, 2008 21:06:09 GMT
A quick question for clarification: If a Pariah rages, is his spell penetration check a plain Con + d20, ignoring all spell penetration feats? Not Con + SP Feats + d20? This is exactly right. In the good old days, we used to get the SP feats added in, but the nerfbat struck. Incidentally, I don't know what would happen during rage if your modified CON was lower than your level + SP feats.
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Post by sagil on Nov 16, 2008 0:02:43 GMT
Thanks, I actually tested it out, and with CL 40, Con 40 and spell penetration feat, your spell penetration check does get worse while raging..
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Post by nathyrra on Nov 17, 2008 13:05:31 GMT
Hmmm, was wondering if ED (energy drain) increases caster level and spell pen for pariahs as it would be. A pariah having 70 CON has caster level 60 and spell penetration 70 (raging)... would the spell raise this to caster level 63 and spell penetration 73??
Nath.
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Post by illandous on Nov 17, 2008 14:24:25 GMT
A quick question for clarification: If a Pariah rages, is his spell penetration check a plain Con + d20, ignoring all spell penetration feats? Not Con + SP Feats + d20? This is exactly right. In the good old days, we used to get the SP feats added in, but the nerfbat struck. *sniff* the good old days.
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Post by Acaos on Nov 17, 2008 14:39:16 GMT
Yes, ED works universally, as do the bonus caster levels from the Sigil of Mystra and Netherese Power Orbs.
Acaos
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Post by Onyx [SL] on Nov 17, 2008 14:42:06 GMT
Thanks, I actually tested it out, and with CL 40, Con 40 and spell penetration feat, your spell penetration check does get worse while raging.. The key is pour as much CON as you can get into your Pariah and don't take any spell penetration feats.
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Post by illandous on Nov 17, 2008 14:46:06 GMT
Yeah, this means I would really need to update this build post changes. and reincarnate my pariah.
Also due to the changes I would recommend a 20/20 split with possibly a Sorc CC instead of Barb for channeling. but I don't think that you would have enough spell slots to make the best use of it, so the jury is still out. -ill
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Post by shardelay on Nov 17, 2008 15:26:02 GMT
Sorc CC means you would miss out on the extra 4 con from barb in LL.
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Post by kingcamaro on Nov 17, 2008 16:51:55 GMT
indeed, i went 20/20 with barb CC. this is how i see the differences:
barb CC get +4 con & str which when raging, is +4 SP *EDITED*, and permanent +2 DC, and doesnt suck up spells (basically !mm channel 2 for free) extra HP + regen with con boost, better chance vs str checks. sorc CC able to get +1 SP and DC vs barb CC, but only when using !mm channel 3 (sucks up too many spells imo). also gets access to using more sorc epics.
though my build uses 6 greater con feats, and has 4 LL focuses (spell pen, evo, illusion, trans) here is something to consider:
i currently have 74 con (after double demi bonus) if i were to ditch spell pen focus all together, pick up ESF necro, and change the other LL focuses to just ESF, that frees up 4 feats... could take the remaining 4 con feats to boost me up to 78 con after DD.
pros: i pick up 4 more con (+2 DC which i think evens out the LL focuses as if they were LL with 74 con, and also more HP/regen), an extra school. cons: relying on raging for SP, which after doing alot of testing in the hells arena, is a viable option after seeing suprising SR #'s (though id only recomend this to someone with good caster knowledge)
just something to think about in my ramblings
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Post by shardelay on Nov 17, 2008 17:07:55 GMT
A LL focus is equiv of 2 con in terms of DC. If you were to drop all 4 of those LL focus you would get 4 con which is 2 dc. That is equivalent in terms of dc. You get more SP.
And if you drop SP completely (you will be raging all the time anyway) you can then add on a few of those LL foci you dropped.
exactly. I have 74con pre-demi on my pariah with arti and I have LSF trans and esf illu, and evo. I ignored SP. He's just workshop tagged now so we'll see how it goes.
You took necro? was it worth it? didnt seem to be enough spells i wanted that werent bigby's or trans spells to bother. I really only did illusion for wierd since i was base gnome. You can even fit somethign like blooded and LSA Tumble if you want to get STR-tank like AC or bump up evo and illusion to legendary AND have 78con if you dont do necro.
also
isnt SP= con + 1d20? that would mean you get +4sp with 4con from taking Barb CC
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Post by kingcamaro on Nov 17, 2008 17:41:14 GMT
naa, i dont have necro... was just something i might do when i make my next pariah (my current pariah is demi 3 needing nessus once again, and enjoyed pariah so much, im gonna make another when he is demi 5 and abos tagged) but yeah, picking up LL evo/illusion/trans and dropping spell pen for +4 con is another option to consider, but getting necro isnt a bad idea either, as i am set up, my lvl 9/8/7 spells are 9: wierd, lvl 9 bigby, metoer swarm 8: lvl 8 bigby, greater sanc, mass blindness & deafness 7: lvl 7 bigby, finger of death, prismatic spray... again metoer swarm doesnt get much use, apart from massing 3rd map of tia... and thats only if im not creating a whole bunch of garden abishais, mass blindness and deafness... just couldnt find anything very useful, prismatic spray... not even remotly useful (really needs help). atleast with necro, i could make better use of FoD, drop meteor swarm for either wail or ED, surely i can find a decent lvl 8 necro spell, same again for lvl 7. could also hit me up with enervates too. ive been pondering how to do my next pariah build, and was basically gonna drop spell pen for 4 more great con... i only thought about dropping LSF to ESF when posting my last post just then hehe. just a side question... what spells do you use for 7/8/9, and how useful do you find them? EDIT: yeah, your also right about +4 con = +4 SP
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Post by borges on Nov 17, 2008 17:52:46 GMT
I'd be very wary about relying on rages for spell penetration. You only get 6 of them per rest on a 20/20 build, and they last around 3-4 minutes each. That looks like plenty on paper, but if you die a few times during a nasty spawn you run the risk of being completely ineffective until you manage to get a rest in.
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Post by nathyrra on Nov 17, 2008 17:55:44 GMT
Yes, ED works universally, as do the bonus caster levels from the Sigil of Mystra and Netherese Power Orbs. Acaos kk, ty Acaos. And for Shard Elay: How did u got CON 74 and LSF trans and ESF Illusion and Evo? 3 of the 7 LL feats u have should have been taken with GCON (since u have 7 epic feats), so u must have gotten ESF and LSF Trans, and ESF Illusion at LL (evo by book). Didnt u get any LL saves feats? Hugs, Nath.
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Post by illandous on Nov 17, 2008 20:02:33 GMT
I agree with KC on this one. although borges has a great point.
On this server, it seems that having better stats for a short period of time outweighs the risk that you take as a caster here.
I also know that I generally go 12 - 15 minutes between rests. If you have 6 rests at 3 minutes a crack, even you die 2 times, there wouldn't be many times that you need to rest for rages. I however do now know if you can be dispelled from raging (that wouldn't make much sence, but eh). That could influence your decision.
-Ill
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