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Post by felicity on Jul 10, 2008 14:07:57 GMT
After playing a staffmaster a bit, with so much sacrifice in defense, I'm not satisfied at it's damage. I'm planning to build a barb with dev crit and 11 attacks per round (5 regular + 2 from dual wield feats, another +2 from double weapon with shapestrong, +2 from harper secret), at the same time still sturdy enough to take a beating. This build is tight on feat, I find Undying actually a good chasis.
Features: 14-20/x4, 11 attacks per round reliable AB for a dualer crit immunity from rage greater restore pot from harper can wear harper boots good health - 1200+ hp max taunt plus epic skill focus have all the needed skills
Class: Barbarian 53/Harper Scout 5/Fighter 2
Race: Elf - Undying
Stats: str 15 (17) +2 dex 12 (14) +2 con 14 (18) +4 wis 8 (10) +2 int 16 (18) +2 cha 8 (10) +2
Level Progression: 1-19 barbarian 20 fighter (4 disc, 8 persuade, 6 lore and 4 search) 21 harper 22-32 barbarian 33 fighter (max concentration) 34-36 barbarian 37-40 harper
Pre Epic Feat: 1. exotic weapon proficiency 3. power attack 6. cleave 9. great cleave 12. weapon focus dire mace 15. imp crit dire mace 18. alertness 20. two-weapon fightnig (fighter bonus feat #1)
Epic Feats: 21. armor skin, dex 1 (harper bonus feat #1) 24. powress 26. terrifying rage (barbarian bonus feat #1) 27. EWF 30. ambidex, thundering rage (barbarian bonus feat #2) 33. over crit, imp two-weapon fighting (fighter bonus feat #2) 35. dev crit (barbarian bonus feat #3) 36. epic will 39. str 1 40. esf taunt (harper bonus feat #2)
Legendary Feats: 42. LWF 45. str 2 48. L reflex 51. L will 54. L luck 57. mighty rage 60. str 3
Skill Points Allocations: 63 craft armor 63 craft weapon 63 listen 63 disc 63 intimidate 63 taunt 60 tumble 31 UMD 30 concentration 8 persuade 4 search 6 lore 1 pickpocket
Final Stats: str 56 dex 27 con 34 wis 20 int 28 cha 22
Saves: Fort 66 Reflex 62 Will 64
Attack Bonus @60: 23 (str 56) + 30 (bab) + 15 (Lbab) + 20 (enchantment) + 7 (feats) AB = 95 on haste attack
AC @60 with burs: 10 + 30 (med armor) + 19 (tower shield) + 20 (dodge) + 17 (natural) + 17 (deflection) + 12 (tumble) + 2 (armor skin) + 2 (craft armor) + 4 (girdling) AC = 133
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Post by felicity on Jul 10, 2008 14:19:32 GMT
Feats List:
Pre Epic: 1. exotic weapon proficiency 2. weapon focus dire mace 3. imp crit 4. power attack 5. cleave 6. gr. cleave 7. alertness
Epic: 1. overwhelming crit 2. powress 3. ambidex 4. EWF 5. armor skin 6. str 1 7. epic will
Harper: 1. esf taunt 2. dex 1
Barbarian: 1. thundering rage 2. terrifying rage 3. dev crit
Fighter: 1. two-weapon fighting 2. imp. two-weapon fighting
Legendary: 1. LWF 2. L luck 3. L reflex 4. L will 5. str 2 6. mighty rage 7. str 3
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Post by flay on Jul 10, 2008 14:55:53 GMT
No mighty rage? The whole point of dualling with a barbarian is smashing up crit immune enemies. Dev crit is nice to have, but with a build focussed on number of attacks, you miss a lot without the unresistable cold damage.
Though it depends what you want to focus on the most; crittable trash mobs, or big bad crit-immune mobs.
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Post by felicity on Jul 10, 2008 16:10:58 GMT
have to shuffle feats/stats around if you want mighty, depends if you think 8 dmg is worth it... I'll try to see if it can be done without ab loss
Result: Does the con bonus from legendary barb level apply before the feat option stage? If the answer is yes then you could drop LSF umd for mighty... if not then you need to sacrifice ab, prolly not worth it.
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jul 10, 2008 16:17:21 GMT
If you want mighty rage, my suggestion would be to drop LSF UMD (you do have 31 points in it, maybe fit in a couple more if you really want, but bard song should help also) or you could take two more fighter levels and take it that way, dropping 2 barb levels. Although how you'll get the 5 extra con for it...good luck. Also, Ambidexterity takes 15 dex, so you need to adjust your stats for that. -Stryker
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Post by felicity on Jul 10, 2008 16:26:56 GMT
I was thinking of drop LSF umd for mighty too, but not sure if the stat bonus apply before the feat selection stage... need the +1 con to reach 21 con. This build has 20 base con - 12 at start, +4 from sub, +4 from legendary barb level = 20, can reach 21 if I start with 12 int instead of 14, then put the 2 points into con (con 13, odd number I know).
Barb have a bonus feat at 32 so dropping it to 31 for 2 more fighter will not earn me one more feat, but I lose out skill points and hp from taking less barb level.
I have 15 dex for ambidex - 12 at start, +2 from sub, +1 from harper feat = 15
31 UMD is the most I could take cos elf can raise cross-class skill only to 31 max.
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Post by borges on Jul 10, 2008 16:31:54 GMT
31 UMD is the most I could take cos elf can raise cross-class skill only to 31 max. That's not how it works. Elves pay 2 skill points per cross-class rank up to 31; from 31 all the way to 63, they pay 3 skill points per rank. Probably not relevant for this build, but there you have it.
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jul 10, 2008 16:33:55 GMT
31 UMD is the most I could take cos elf can raise cross-class skill only to 31 max. That's not how it works. Elves pay 2 skill points per cross-class rank up to 31; from 31 all the way to 63, they pay 3 skill points per rank. Probably not relevant for this build, but there you have it. That only applies if any of the classes in the build have UMD as a class skill, none of them do so raising UMD applies as normal.
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Post by Mortis on Jul 10, 2008 17:12:32 GMT
AC @60 with burs:10 + 30 (med armor) + 19 (tower shield) + 20 (dodge) + 17 (natural) + 17 (deflection) + 12 (tumble) + 2 (armor skin) + 2 (craft armor) + 4 (girdling) AC = 133 I am thinking your AC is accurate however, (unless I am mistaken) the 2 extra attacks per round are dependant on a two handed weapon without a shield. So is this a shield bearing large race? Or a large race that gets a large amount of attacks without a shield? Final AC without shield is 114 Cheers, ~Mort
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Post by Yomi on Jul 10, 2008 17:25:47 GMT
After playing a staffmaster a bit, with so much sacrifice in defense, I'm not satisfied at it's damage. I have not played one personally, but the Weapon of Retribution Staffmaster did a huge amount of damage in the Hells. Precious few tanks will match it (admittedly some of that may be the player behind the build). That said, a dire mace barbarian with 9 attacks a round is one of the few that I've seen exceed it. You need to be aware that you do not get the dual wield attacks if you use a shield. Even as a barbarian. You do get them if you don't use a shield, though there are some serious gotchas in doing that (from what I've been told, you can't just swap the shield in and out; once the shield goes in you've lost the extra 2 attacks until the next reset -- I haven't verified that however). Of course without a shield your AC is a lot lower. Lower than most people would find prudent, though I've seen it done. The HS will give you 9 attacks even with shield, and you can go to 11 if you feel you can take it. If you get all the other barbarian benefits (e.g. Mighty Rage) it sounds nice. There are a few other people who've had similar ideas. Various HS Barbarian combos have been posted over the last couple years, the latest being Flay's Kill Frenzy.
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Post by felicity on Jul 11, 2008 7:17:47 GMT
But I read this under "Topic: Documentation Summaries" in Class/Ability/Spell Customizations forum:
So I don't think you need to swap out the shield after the "gotcha", as long as you're medium size you can benefit from +2 attacks even wearing a shield.
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Post by felicity on Jul 11, 2008 7:33:45 GMT
Updated - incorporate mighty into the build, gain +2 con pre-epic, and 1 fort, at the loss of 1 ab, esf intimidate and some skill points (about 12).
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Post by felicity on Jul 11, 2008 8:12:25 GMT
Minor twitch: Put 2 int into wis at start, cos I calculated wrong skill points, 12 is more than enough. Gain +1 to will save.
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Post by Mortis on Jul 11, 2008 12:30:14 GMT
Felicity, Please update Reply #10 with Quote Author and date. Having trouble finding that information. Thank you.
~Mortis
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Post by felicity on Jul 11, 2008 14:11:39 GMT
done
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