Weapons: Double Weapons - When wielded by characters with the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat, double weapons grant two additional attacks beyond the normal two additional offhand attacks. - This means a Medium character can reach 9 attacks (4 base + 1 haste + 2 offhand + 2 extra), and a Large character can reach 7 (they would not receive the 2 offhand attacks). - The additional attacks will be lost if the character has anything in his offhand, unless he is a Barbarian with Shapestrong Rage.
Well, looks like large characters only get 7 attacks if theyre large, wether or not theyre barbarians. Seems barbarians get to keep a shield without losing attacks, but they cant get 9 attacks if large in any case.
Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 1, 2008 0:47:43 GMT
Ok hehe I need to read forums posts better Sorry for missreading lol, got a bit confused.
I think the point of being a barbarian is that a normal large sized character would get 7 attacks per round with a double weapon and the dual wield feats, however if they equip a shield it goes down to 5. The point of shapestrong is that it actually allows u to equip a shield and keep the extra two attacks per round, so instead of dropping to 5 per round u keep the 7 per round with shapestrong.
If I am reading that right it looks as follows:
Medium 4 Base+1 Haste +2 Offhand +2 Extra (Providing no Shield) = 9 (-2 with Shield or another item but negated with Shapestrong)
Large 4 Base+1 Haste +2 Extra (Providing no Shield) =7 (-2 with shield or another item but negated with Shapestrong)
So since your build is Mael (A large Size Char) u get a max of 7 attacks per round but the Harper Scout gives u back the two attacks per round u loose due to Large Size not getting + 2 for off hand.
Sorry to keep going on about this but I wanna make sure I am looking at this the right way, I am thinking of making a similar build myself lol and want to make sure I get my facts straight
Also since Shapestrong makes u a large sized char would u then loose the 2 off hand attacks as a Barb if using a medium char? Since u have literally changed size from medium to large? So even if u made this char with a medium char u would still only get 7 attacks per round in shapestrong and not 9? I confuse easily
I also noted u didn't bother with Parry as u get crit immune from Rages, am curious as to the adviseability of this since I know Barbs Crit immune doesn't have a huge life span, it could come in handy for when Crit Immune drops. Just a thought
Koly version, since Mael cannot benefit from 11 attacks per round, and Koly has the best stat adjustments with a medium race for this build. I don't like using Koly since its extremely difficult to trade for, but its the best way to optimize this build so I couldnt really avoid it.
I'd prefer if the build would work at 11 attacks per round with Mael, but the scripting that doesnt allow that, which is silly, since barbarians make great double weapon users.
This version gets mighty rage later than the Mael, but I just modified it to make it optimized for hells and I'm not overly concerned with playability during the levelling process.
The intelligence modifier from Koly also gives this build a much more reliable UMD score. The LSF UMD might be overkill, and it can certainly be dropped for another feat with enough gs potions in stock. ESF Discipline to ward off that crippling demi skill penalty on the second time facing Asmodeus might be a good choice. Extra skill points for concentration will mean this build doesnt have to fear para nups as much.
Human Kolyarut (BUR) +5 +5 +4 +2 -2 -2
Barbarian 33 Monk 2 Harper Scout 5
Barbarian 14, monk 2, HS 4 in pre-epic.
Str 17 / 22 Dex 9 / 14 Con 14 / 18 Int 16 / 18 Wis 8 / 6 Cha 8 / 6
All level up ability increases go to strength.
Skills (563 skill points) -Discipline 63 (HS prereq Discipline 4) -Craft Armor 63 -Craft Weapon 63 -Tumble 60 -Intimidate 63 -Listen 63 -Lore 6 (HS prereq) -Persuade 8 (HS prereq, pick this on a monk level) -Search 4 [cross-class] (HS prereq) -Taunt 63 (I would reccomend a voiceset without a taunt emote) -UMD 31 [cross-class] (in legendary levels) -Concentration 20 (remaining points at level 60) [or, to change the build slightly, take a third monk level at 40 and one less barbarian level, and dump 41 points into concentration]
AB 92 (including twf penalties); +1/2/3 craft weapon; +1 with str artifact; +1 vs. outsiders -1 AB if using shapestrong.
AC in medium armor (+17 medium armor, +17 natural, +17 deflect) 127 base 130 with strongheart +1/2/3 craft armor -1 AC if using shapestrong.
I've heard something about using shapestrong to use a shield and double weapon while medium sized, but I'm not too sure how that works. If it doesnt work, you can at least choose between medium size for maximum damage output, or large size for decent AC.