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Post by Trazik on Dec 19, 2007 17:45:11 GMT
Trazik, why did you choose Bard instead of Wizard? Discipline. Sorry for being cryptic, but as stated I could not afford Bullheaded feat at lvl 1. I think this may be an artifact of the fact that I used half-fiend and needed to collect the save feats manually, rather than as subrace bonuses. On the flip side, dex is 70 as double-demi and with Dex Artifact. Trazik
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 9, 2008 17:05:01 GMT
Updated with notes regarding Search and hidden Hells loot
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 17, 2008 9:36:47 GMT
Wait, Elves get a +2 to Search check, no? One that falls under the "misc" category and thus isn't applied to the +50 bonus cap?
Also, I'm considering Legendary Fort instead of Legendary Luck. I can't think of any Will saves aside from Amnesia, which this build doesn't really care about.
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 21, 2008 10:41:13 GMT
Modified original post to give details on how to build it with an "empty" subrace (no stat, feat, or skill bonuses), as well as with Undying, and brief notes on the differences between empty/Undying, and on how to play the build.
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Post by Asturias on Jan 23, 2008 17:35:18 GMT
Thanks a lot for the build dodrudon I have few questions to complete my perception about AA rogue. 1°) First with the calculation of the AB : How do you get +20 AB with items ? Is there any +20 bow or do i miss something ? 2°) In your experience of playing in hell, does the sneak attack is usefull ? I mean is there many monster immun to it or not ? Because i am wondering if AA rogue is a better damage dealer than "pur" AA (without any other consideration) in hell. All commentary of non pure rogue using sneak attack are more than welcome Thanks
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 23, 2008 20:30:46 GMT
1) More precisely, I guess it should be "20 (buffs)" not items, sorry about that. With bardsong and and various auras and such, you can be sure you'll hit the +20 cap on AB. 2) I haven't gotten him to Hells yet . I'm a notoriously slow leveler. So, with that disclaimed, +16d6 Sneak Attack is going to add a healthy chunk of damage to anything not sneak immune. From my experience, the lesser mobs are not immune to sneak attack, whereas the most difficult ones that are left till last are. This is in some ways helpful, because you have to be in close range to sneak, so you can stand further away from the tougher mobs with no penalty. Pure AA will ALWAYS deal better damage than any other archer build. They have HUGE AB, a class feature, they get +1 AB every two levels, which means a lot more of their lower end attacks land. A pure AA will land on average three more attacks per round than an archer with now AA levels, if they had the same equipment. Still, with decent AB, added sneak attack damage, and the ability to use AA bows, rogue archer builds are still very viable. The big advantage here is the ability to open chests and such, though there have been a LOT LOT LOT more rogues now than before.
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Post by Asturias on Jan 23, 2008 21:41:54 GMT
Hmm it's very interesting to discuss, because AB is a major point for every warrior. I have seen for exemple that in avernus or in Dis, most of the monster got less than 80 of AC. Which mean that an archer with 95 AB can hit every time (without consideration of concealment). Ex: an archer in rapid shot would have 7 att ( 93 / 93 / 93 / 88 / 83 / 78 / 73 ) wich is high enough to hit even with the layer penality. But it's true that for a demi in nessus (with -12 Ab penality and higher AC enemy) it will be a new story. So i think you are absolutely right, the lack of AB for non pur AA drop their average damage. Damned now i don't know what i want to build, a damage dealer or a more versatile archer
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 24, 2008 0:10:56 GMT
Heh Extra attacks are separate from normal attacks, progression-wise. So you'd have: 93 / 88 / 83 / 78 / 73 for normal attacks with Rapid Shot (I think). Then, with Haste and the bonus attack from DB bows would be: 93 / 88. Tougher creatures and bosses will have higher AC of course . The +4 AB from AA levels in this build is about 2 less attacks hitting on average than an AA, but, you get sneaks! Sometimes. And you can hit up chests. Up to you . The original concept of this build (not by me) was probably to create a useful build that could do chests, because rogues used to be in rare supply. Now that there are more rogues, this build might not be as useful anymore.
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 28, 2008 18:53:53 GMT
fixed bad error, empty subby version wasn't taking Improved Evasion for Epic Dodge...
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 29, 2008 10:41:31 GMT
fixed stewpid mistake on empty subby version , Luck of Heroes/Legendary Luck swapped to the more useful Strong Soul/Hardened Soul.
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Post by magecat on Apr 4, 2010 11:33:48 GMT
Did you consider the trade off between taking 3 more Rogue levels for this: "For characters with 35 levels of rogue or more, the Crippling Strike feat also has a chance to incrase crit multiplier. The rogue has a (rogue level + 10)% chance per swing of receiving a +1 bonus to his critical multiplier with light weapons when in light or no armor."? Won't work with the primary focus of the build, which is Longbow.
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