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Post by simpetar on Sept 5, 2008 9:43:57 GMT
Here is an idea of a new UR subby, inspired by the stats of Planewalker:
Magical (secret Ultra Rare) base race: any +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity, +2 Inteligence, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma; spell resistance 15 + 1 per level; immune to all Breach and Mord spells cast directly on them
simpetar
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Post by mistoffoles on Sept 5, 2008 11:42:21 GMT
... and then we all learn how to play toons with less str just to be mord/breech immune. +2 con.. can you say pariah +2 int/wis/charisma can you say paladin,bfm,sorcerer,pm,wizard
I see the bonuses of this race but really dont see any detriment. If you were after a race that has focused all their being into magic and all that it entails. You would probably end up more like.... -4 str, -4 con, -4 dex but all that is given up becauese they are really smart +2 int really wise in the ways of magic +2 wis, and they have to be charismatic +2 cha because they always having to ask folks to carry their books around so they dont fall and hurt themselves.
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Post by Trazik on Sept 5, 2008 14:33:11 GMT
Nice idea, but with only 1 item in the game (an artifact no less) that has both mord & breach immunity, I would be very surprised to see this property on even a BUR subby.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Sept 5, 2008 15:58:40 GMT
Indeed. The stats do not differ drastically from Planewalker (+2 to all but -2 str), which also saves you 1 ringslot some of the time.
Something that saves you TWO ringslots ALL of the time...seems like just too much.
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Post by simpetar on Sept 5, 2008 16:02:16 GMT
As I wrote, this idea comes from looking at Planewalker. All of breach and mord immunities and water breathing / levitation come from items by default, so normal subbies who have none of them have to use that items. Planewalkers do not need levi or water breathing items, so for breach and mord (to be "complete") they can use Crest of Vile Darkness (aye, it is artifact). My point is, there could be some subby, who has to use e.g. Ring of Planewalker (very hard to obtain as well) to be "complete".
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Sept 5, 2008 16:25:53 GMT
Yes, but noplace requires you to wear a water AND lev ring at the same time. So being a planewalker really only saves you one ring slot.
TONS of places require mord/breach protection at the same time, which saves you 2 ringslots, or 1 ring and 1 boot slot, at the same time.
Thats a massive advantage. One that I would say is far more powerful than any other UR, and probably way too good for even a BUR race aswell.
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Post by kingcamaro on Sept 5, 2008 16:31:08 GMT
i must agree with Delf... water ring and lev ring arent used in many places, mord and/or breach are kinda needed in hells.
id probally trade 2 or 3 top tier burs for a subby that had -2 to all stats with immunity to breach and mord... very powerful immunitys to be given to a subby.
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Post by simpetar on Sept 5, 2008 16:33:15 GMT
Very true... Maybe such features are BUR. Know that it was just an idea, not a dogma
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Post by kingcamaro on Sept 5, 2008 16:37:20 GMT
maybe "Artifact" subraces... they arent able to use artifacts though, such as SP arti wis int dex etc, nor are they able to equip asmo artifacts... actually, they arent allowed to even hold an artifact else it goes boom!
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Post by Acaos on Sept 5, 2008 17:22:08 GMT
id probally trade 2 or 3 top tier burs for a subby that had -2 to all stats with immunity to breach and mord... very powerful immunitys to be given to a subby. So you'd actually play something like this? If so, I'll put it on the discussion list for balance discussion. Nihil (beyond ultrarare) - STR -2, DEX -2, CON -2, INT -2, WIS -2, CHA -2 - SR 15 + 1/level; immunity to directly targeted Breach and Mordenkainen's Disjunction Acaos
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Post by chainlink on Sept 5, 2008 17:55:32 GMT
Yes it would be interesting trying to optimise a subby with below par stats but very useful immunities, I bet there are a few people who already have plans for this.
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Post by kingcamaro on Sept 5, 2008 19:21:19 GMT
So you'd actually play something like this? If so, I'll put it on the discussion list for balance discussion. Nihil (beyond ultrarare) - STR -2, DEX -2, CON -2, INT -2, WIS -2, CHA -2 - SR 15 + 1/level; immunity to directly targeted Breach and Mordenkainen's Disjunction Acaos hell yeah... a xDD CC would be able to even up most of the stats... even just RDD CC BFM could. barb CC get +4 con and str in LL lvls.
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Sept 5, 2008 19:36:57 GMT
Um....90% of the builds out there would just get screwed by this subrace.
CC Barb? Last I checked Barbs dont even need mord/breach. A Barb Pariah tank maybe...except their stats suffer enough without going from a potential +4/6 str to a -2str race.
The most beneficial branch of classes would obviously be casters, but to what consequence? Oh..druids that could max at 58 Wis! Or clerics that can't implode.
Sorry, I can't justify the gain vs. loss in my eyes.
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Post by simpetar on Sept 5, 2008 19:45:58 GMT
Maybe some self-buffing tanks, like staffmasters, battle clerics, battle bards and such.
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Sept 5, 2008 19:56:31 GMT
Maybe some self-buffing tanks, like staffmasters, battle clerics, battle bards and such. Battle Clerics using Pharlan already have low to mid 90s ab. I doubt they'd want to give that up, let alone a UR or Secret race that was picked for the small +2 Str they get for the AB boost. Battle bards and staffmasters...maybe. But still, AB goes a long way when people have already put the effort into collecting and practicing with the mord/breach that is already available to them.
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