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Post by bort on Jan 21, 2007 11:15:31 GMT
Vaprak's Chosen (See DragonChyld's post above) I really like this quasiclass idea. Unfortunately, limiting it to Half-Ogres greatly restricts how often it would see play (but makes perfect sense from a concept standpoint). I would be willing to try it out, although I'm concerned that the movement speed penalty will deter many other people from doing so (based on what people have said about the Treant race and their speed). After additional consideration, I think the 10% physical immunity per (pre-legendary) Barbarian level past 13 is too powerful. B23/C17 would have 100% physical immunity and still have access to 9th level Cleric spells. I suggest that the physical immunity be changed to 6% per level, which would be 84% if you devoted all your levels to maxing this ability out (B27/C13). 84% is very powerful (unless I'm mistaken this stacks with % physical resist items, so with gear you can get 100%), but still reasonable (because it requires you to sacrifice access to higher level spells). Also, the spell immunity ability seems overpowered. Maybe it could be one level of spells per two added levels of cleric, capping at 7th level for a C27/B13 (though that seems underpowered, considering the physical immunity you would miss out on). Another alternative would be to keep this ability as it is, but restrict it to function only while the Chosen was under the effects of Barbarian Rage. The % elemental resist ability, however, seems a little underpowered. I'd suggest that the Chosen should get 1% resist to all elemental damage for each point of Con bonus, plus 1% per legendary level. If you devoted yourself to maxing this ability out it would come out to roughly 47% at L60 (I assume that there is an item out there that gives a one-shot permanent +2 Con, though I don't know what it is). The typical Vaprak's Chosen, however, would probably see something more like 5-11% on becoming a Chosen and 31% at L60. Another option would be to treat it like the RDD bonuses (level and feat based). Perhaps something like this: Physical immunity granted on having enough barb levels AND epic damage reduction feats. Spell immunity granted on having enough cleric levels AND arcane defense feats. Elemental immunity granted on having enough combined cleric/barb levels AND epic energy resist feats.
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Post by dodrudon on Jan 21, 2007 13:40:18 GMT
A bard/barbarian with abilities based on intimidate and perform would be VERY cool, as suggested by Domicron. Perhaps also add in taunt ability? The focus of the build would be to use area effects to affect allies positively (bard song) and negatively effect enemies (barbarian rage). Maybe gain special once-per-day songs or such.
Raging Singer (a lame name, just a placeholder) Bard Song - works as normal, except based on both bard and barb levels, and perform plus half of intimidate (because wearing all bard perform boosting equipment isn't an option) Bard Spells - support and buff spells based on levels of both classes, offensive spells based on either bard or barb levels, whichever is higher, plus half of other. Spell penetration based on total bard+barb levels Rage Aura - creates an aura that causes penalties equal to curse song, usable once per day, one round per bard+barb levels Thor's Blessing (Aura) - base str and con are increased to x based on lvls, allies in area gain +12 to str, +12 to con, 1/day, 1turn per bard+barb lvls Aura of Inspiration - bard song in the form of an aura, 1turn/bard+barb lvls, 1 use per song Rage - bonuses scale with level Aura of Pain - does damage once per round (unresistable dmg if possible) to opponents equal to twice charisma modifier, half physical of choice, half normal elemental of choice (more choices as you level). At char lvl 50, add cha mod in damage of some exotic type
The class would need to balanced defensively so it could wade into enemies to apply these penalties. More of a support class, maybe add more healing spells? Add in some cleric levels?
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Post by DragonChyld on Jan 21, 2007 15:06:53 GMT
Lifethreader ( highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=Thoughts&action=display&n=1&thread=5759) I don't see myself ever playing a Lifethreader, but I certainly wouldn't object to having one around. I'm not sure Cleric/MW is atypical-enough a combination to warrant a quasiclass, however the Lifethreader only gets one special ability and it's fairly tame, so maybe it's okay that the combination isn't very atypical. Storm Master ( highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=Thoughts&action=display&n=1&thread=5768) I think shifting into a Rakshasa and blank-storming everything is sight is a little too single-minded to base an entire quasiclass around, but to each his own. It seems like a simple quasiclass to implement (few changes), and Funky seemed amenable to it. Demon Consort ( highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=Thoughts&action=display&n=1&thread=5761) Sounds fun. Apparently the stat penalties can't be implemented as suggested, so I have an alternative. Change the penalties to be permanent stat loss, based on the strongest demon the Consort can call to serve her. To compensate a little for the always-present nature of the stat loss I've lowered it slightly and added some Fire/Acid DR (representing the Consort's growing demonic nature): Wizard Level 12: -4 Con, -1 Str, Epic Damage Reduction I: Fire Wizard Level 14: -5 Con, -1 Str, -1 Dex, EDR I: Acid Wizard Level 16: -6 Con, -2 Str, -1 Dex, EDR II: Fire, EDR II: Acid Wizard Level 18: -8 Con, -2 Str, -2 Dex, EDR III: Fire, EDR III: Acid Upon taking the Epic Spell Ensnare True Denizen, the Consort would suffer an additional reduction of -1 Con and -1 Str. It should be possible to simply lower a character's base stats, similar to how RDD stats are raised at legendary levels based on taking required feats. Also, spell DCs should not be changed to be based off Con, so that the stat penalties aren't totally crippling to the Consort's spellcasting abilities...I would suggest using Int just like a normal Wizard. This would still require the Consort to choose between increasing Int for better spellcasting or increasing Con to offset the growing penalty to her hit point total. I like this quasiclass idea, and hope to see it make the cut with or without my suggested adjustments. Vaprak's Chosen (See DragonChyld's post above) I really like this quasiclass idea. Unfortunately, limiting it to Half-Ogres greatly restricts how often it would see play (but makes perfect sense from a concept standpoint). I would be willing to try it out, although I'm concerned that the movement speed penalty will deter many other people from doing so (based on what people have said about the Treant race and their speed). After additional consideration, I think the 10% physical immunity per (pre-legendary) Barbarian level past 13 is too powerful. B23/C17 would have 100% physical immunity and still have access to 9th level Cleric spells. I suggest that the physical immunity be changed to 6% per level, which would be 84% if you devoted all your levels to maxing this ability out (B27/C13). 84% is very powerful (unless I'm mistaken this stacks with % physical resist items, so with gear you can get 100%), but still reasonable (because it requires you to sacrifice access to higher level spells).
Also, the spell immunity ability seems overpowered. Maybe it could be one level of spells per two added levels of cleric, capping at 7th level for a C27/B13 (though that seems underpowered, considering the physical immunity you would miss out on). Another alternative would be to keep this ability as it is, but restrict it to function only while the Chosen was under the effects of Barbarian Rage.
The % elemental resist ability, however, seems a little underpowered. I'd suggest that the Chosen should get 1% resist to all elemental damage for each point of Con bonus, plus 1% per legendary level. If you devoted yourself to maxing this ability out it would come out to roughly 47% at L60 (I assume that there is an item out there that gives a one-shot permanent +2 Con, though I don't know what it is). The typical Vaprak's Chosen, however, would probably see something more like 5-11% on becoming a Chosen and 31% at L60.
I read the other quasiclass threads that I could find, but didn't find any that I would recommend. Edit: Forgot to post part of my Demon Consort changes. Added suggested changes to Vaprak's Chosen. Wanted to comment on this part. If you look closely you will see it is balanced, because, you only have 14 pre-LL left after you become a chosen, SO its an either or thing, You can become immune to 8th level spells and below(Which a level 60 caster with EV already gets), BUT only have 60% physical immunity. Or have 100% physical immunity(Which is pretty easy for a lev 60 DD to pull off) and only be immune to level 4 and below spells. However I like tha part about the elemental immunitys you suggested. ~ DC
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Post by bhao on Jan 22, 2007 0:13:45 GMT
may i suggest the name "rock star" for the rage singer. i would also require them to always wear black Conjurer. different/more powerful summons in exchange for needing the summon creature spell(s) both as wiz and as druid. the 9 different summon spells would create different kinds of creatures for different situation, like summon 1 is always a ranged attack monster, summon 2 is always really good tank, but has no offensive capability... spell level is only used to differentiate between the types and would no longer indicate the power of the summon. summons would become more powerful with increasing int and wis attribute, keeping conjurers from getting one of those really high. this would cause them to have a lot of summon spell slots, while the at the same time cripple all their other casting powers that need either one really high caster attribute or caster levels. (might be a lot of work
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 22, 2007 1:14:34 GMT
Have been knocking this around for months upstairs and don't want someone to beat me to it... Quasi-Class: Singing SaintThese masters of Song have honed their craft such that they sing while cutting down their foe in battle. Their songs inspire their friends as they rally around the Singing Saint. The Singing Saint will often bestow curses and call out taunts to their foes, enraging them such that they will forgo years of training in order to attack the Saint thus making costly mistakes in their own defense. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Must Have: 20 levels of Bard, 20 levels of Paladin by 40 (forces 2 class build because of Quasi-bonuses) Must Have: Feat: Artist (This forces the starting class to Bard) Must Have: Extra Music, Lingering Song, Curse Song by 40 Must Have: 6 Levels of Bard pre Level 20 Must Have: Perform: Ranks: 28+ Must Have: Taunt: Ranks: 28+ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Must Have: Feat: Weapon Focus - In any of the following - Short Sword, Long Sword, Scimitar, Great Sword, Great Axe, Bastard Sword, or Warhammer---OR--------------------------------------------- May Not Have: Feat: Weapon Finesse, May Not Have: Feat: Weapon Focus: Rapier, May Not Have: Feat: Weapon Proficiency Exotic (whichever is easiest to script) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- At 40: Spell Failure while wearing Heavy Armor is 0% At 40: Taunt Skill: -6AC@40, -7AC@45, -8AC@50, -9AC@55, -10AC@60 At 40: Taunt Skill: Ranks Gain +2 at 40,45,50,55,60 = +10@60 At 40: STR, CON, CHA gain +1 per 10/LL ( +2 STR, CON, CHA ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- At 60: 1/8 1/4 of Total Base STR CHA score is added to STR (or BAB or both - whichever is feasible or more reasonable) At 60: 1/8 1/4 of Total Base CON CHA score is added to CON At 60: 1/10 of Total Base CHA score is added to CHA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Base Class Helpers (Making it Easy to Script I Hope)LVL1 Bard: Armor Proficiency Light, Armor Proficiency Medium, Shield, Weapon Proficiency Simple, Bard Song, Bardic Knowledge LVL1 Paladin: Armor Proficiency Heavy, Weapon Proficiency Martial, Divine Grace, Divine Health, Lay on Hands Bonuses of Bard Class to play with Paladin are: Tumble, UMD, Taunt, HG Bard Spells Bonuses of Paladin Class to play with Bard are: WP Martial, Ability to gain Divine Might and Divine Shield, Taunt, Paladin Spells HG Great Smite is Available to this Quasi-Class ( not necessary ) HG Guardian Angle is Available to this Quasi-Class ( not necessary ) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ideas not necessary to success of the class:The Song That Never Ends AoE similar to existing SPELL: Invisibility Sphere WHERE party members within range NNm automatically receive: Bard Song Duration Permanent Until Death Upon Resurrection The Song That Never Ends starts again Auto Cast Idea is that this is a party affecting buff w/in NNm as long as members are within distance NN is starting base 5m at 40 and +5m every 5LL ( or make available through an item pick with 2 use/day)Removed: Adding this would eliminate the need to cast bard song... which would be pointless because of the HG bard modifications. This would needlessly complicate things. Paladin Change: Remove Disease: Cry of the Devout - as mentioned Here ( Of course, if at all possible ) Please make suggestions and I will update because I know this is a very rough idea. EDIT: Changed @40 bonuses Modified @l60 bonuses - trying to get the build to go general with their ability scores rather than pound into one stat exclusively. Added @l60 1/10 CHA
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Post by exidorthequick on Jan 22, 2007 2:17:53 GMT
Vaprak's Chosen ( highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=Tavern&thread=1169323170&post=1169352718) I really like this quasiclass idea. Unfortunately, limiting it to Half-Ogres greatly restricts how often it would see play (but makes perfect sense from a concept standpoint). I would be willing to try it out, although I'm concerned that the movement speed penalty will deter many other people from doing so (based on what people have said about the Treant race and their speed). After additional consideration, I think the 10% physical immunity per (pre-legendary) Barbarian level past 13 is too powerful. B23/C17 would have 100% physical immunity and still have access to 9th level Cleric spells. I suggest that the physical immunity be changed to 6% per level, which would be 84% if you devoted all your levels to maxing this ability out (B27/C13). 84% is very powerful (unless I'm mistaken this stacks with % physical resist items, so with gear you can get 100%), but still reasonable (because it requires you to sacrifice access to higher level spells). Also, the spell immunity ability seems overpowered. Maybe it could be one level of spells per two added levels of cleric, capping at 7th level for a C27/B13 (though that seems underpowered, considering the physical immunity you would miss out on). Another alternative would be to keep this ability as it is, but restrict it to function only while the Chosen was under the effects of Barbarian Rage. The % elemental resist ability, however, seems a little underpowered. I'd suggest that the Chosen should get 1% resist to all elemental damage for each point of Con bonus, plus 1% per legendary level. If you devoted yourself to maxing this ability out it would come out to roughly 47% at L60 (I assume that there is an item out there that gives a one-shot permanent +2 Con, though I don't know what it is). The typical Vaprak's Chosen, however, would probably see something more like 5-11% on becoming a Chosen and 31% at L60. In response to my suggestions, Wanted to comment on this part. If you look closely you will see it is balanced, because, you only have 14 pre-LL left after you become a chosen, SO its an either or thing, You can become immune to 8th level spells and below(Which a level 60 caster with EV already gets), BUT only have 60% physical immunity. Or have 100% physical immunity(Which is pretty easy for a lev 60 DD to pull off) and only be immune to level 4 and below spells. However I like tha part about the elemental immunitys you suggested. ~ DC I still feel that these two abilities are a little overpowered. 100% physical immunity by level 36 without any equipment is just too strong, in my opinion. The best a (naked) DD can do by level 36 (to my knowledge) is 27/-. Yes, with this choice of levels you limit the amount of spell immunity you get, but you do still get immunity to a lot of spells. A more balanced build of C21/B19 would benefit from immunity to level 8 or lower spells, and still have 60% physical immunity. This may seem like a big sacrifice at first glance, however I am confident that at legendary levels it would be possible to achieve an additional 20% physical immunity and 20/- physical DR from items. Throw in the three EDR feats and that comes to 80% + 32/- (including the 3/- for B17-19). That's complete protection from the first 160 points of physical damage done, and then only 2 damage taken for every 10 points over that amount. No, it's not 100%, but it's not much of a sacrifice to earn immunity to all 5th - 8th level spells either. Please understand, I don't object to a character being able to achieve this level of protection. My concern is that the negatives of this proposed quasiclass don't balance out this level of protection. Another option would be to treat it like the RDD bonuses (level and feat based). Perhaps something like this: Physical immunity granted on having enough barb levels AND epic damage reduction feats. Spell immunity granted on having enough cleric levels AND arcane defense feats. Elemental immunity granted on having enough combined cleric/barb levels AND epic energy resist feats. When I first read this suggestion, I was not impressed. It seemed like my suggestion was a simpler way to balance the quasiclass, rather than "restricting" a Chosen's feat selection. Upon reconsideration, I agree with bort that this would be a good way to retain DragonChyld's intended power level while requiring the Chosen to make certain sacrifices to unlock the quasiclass's full potential. I still like my original suggestions, but this would make a good alternative: For damage immunity, I suggest that each level of Barbarian after 13 grants a cumulative 10% physical immunity, once the Chosen has taken the corresponding Epic Toughness feat. (I'm suggesting ET instead of bort's suggested EDR, because taking EDR isn't really a significant sacrifice for a Chosen...EDR I is a requirement of the quasiclass, so every Chosen will already be positioned to take EDR II & III.) So a Chosen who takes a 14th level of Barbarian will get the 10% physical immunity if they also have ET I...if not, then they will get the immunity upon taking ET I at a later time. A Chosen who has 23 or more levels of Barbarian would still be able to achieve 100% physical immunity, but would have to purchase ET I-X to get that benefit. For spell immunity, I suggest that each level of Cleric after 13 grants immunity to increasing levels of spells, starting with level one spells, but only for spells of a school for which the Chosen has the corresponding Arcane Defense feat. For example: a Chosen with 18 levels of Cleric, Arcane Defense: Evocation and Arcane Defense: Illusion would be immune to all Evocation and Illusion spells of level 5 or lower. A Chosen who has 21 or more levels of Cleric would still be able to achieve immunity to all spells of level 8 or lower, but would have to purchase all nine Arcane Defense feats to get that benefit. Realistically, I don't think most players will be willing to devote 18 feats to spell protection. A more modest expendature of 6 feats would be doable, and should protect the Chosen from the vast majority of the nastiest spells out there. For elemental immunity, I suggest that for each Epic Energy Resistance feat the Chosen takes, they get 1% immunity to that element for each point of Con modifer. Additionally, once the Chosen is level 41 or higher, they get an extra 1% immunity per legendary level to each element for which they have at least EER I. This would require an investment of five feats in order to get elemental immunity for all five elements, and gives the Chosen the option to drive this immunity higher by investing additional feats. For example, a level 50 Chosen with a Con of 34 (including gear) and EER III: Cold would have 46% cold immunity (in addition to the 30/- reduction from EER III and whatever protection is afforded by the Chosen's gear). Adding these requirements forces the Chosen to make some difficult choices about how much protection they will have, and when they will get it. Although this system is much more complicated that my first suggestion (or DragonChyld's orginal proposal), it does a good job of ensuring that whatever path the Chosen takes they will not be able to attain too much protection too fast, and will also retain some vulnerabilities. Well, in my opinion, anyway... Edit: Added missing word.
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Post by DragonChyld on Jan 22, 2007 2:28:45 GMT
In response I know at first it seems like this class will get some crazy protective abilitys, BUT also think for a moment about the sacrafices you will have to make. The easiest way to do this is create a new toon, keep the STR as low as possible adn buy about 5 suits of Plate. Then walk around. You will still move faster than a Fully pimped out level 60 Chosen. Thats hard core man. Running away is NOT an option. Not to mention you have to be able to be worth it for a party to drag you along. Without massive protection you will get chopped down. However I am flexible and would like to see this build come to life. I am sure Funky if interested at all, will review you guys suggestions and make it work in the most balanced way possible. After all he know balance more than anybody else here . Thanks alot for helping me find a way to balance this class.
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Post by exidorthequick on Jan 22, 2007 2:47:28 GMT
In combat, the Chosen would stand still while the group brought stuff back to him. For example, a Pixie monk (I-must-be-Neo-because-I-can-see-bullets fast) runs around and wakes up a full screen of critters, and then zips back to the Chosen, who is standing in a doorway. Ranks of casters wait patiently behind him, ready to drop death upon those poor massed critters when they cluster up, unable to get past the unbreakable Chosen (aka Wall of Stone that fights back, casts buffs, and casts heals).
Out of combat, a caster drops Greater Sanctuary on themselves and goes to where they want the Chosen to be next. The caster is set leader, and the Chosen teleports to them.
I agree that very slow speed is a big disadvantage, but it can be completely worked around in a typical large group of high-level characters (in areas where scrye teleport works, anyway...). Still, I like the quasiclass idea, so if it came down to a choice between your original Chosen or not getting any version of Chosen, I'd want your version accepted. Like you said, I'm sure Funky will look this all over and make it work.
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Post by bhao on Jan 22, 2007 3:25:18 GMT
Monk Elementalist:
an unarmed monk specializing in one particular element.
requirements at level 15: - 15 levels monk - weapon focus - unarmed - improved critical - unarmed - resist energy - one element - (more to waste a few feats maybe: dirty fighting, bullheaded)
at level 15, the elementalist "locks" into one particular element, chosen by the resist energy feat. he completely loses the ability to wield weapons and relies exclusively on unarmed attacks.
changes: - unarmed attacks do an additional (monk level+1d6) damage of the chosen elemental type. elementalists also gain (monk level)% immunity of the chosen element.
- stunning fist changes to an area elemental touch attack, maybe the same as the imbue arrows with the db bows. it no longer stuns.
- death attack changes to a touch attack, doing 3x(monk level)d10 elemental damage. it no longer kills (not in the old way, anyway).
- empty body, instead of providing concealment, provides elemental damage kickback of (monk level+1d6).
- at legendary levels, the elementalist also gains (legendary level)/- damage reduction of his element. this requires that he also has the corresponding epic energy reduction feat (may stack with that, or not).
- legendary whirlwind does additional elemental damage similar to the shadowdancer whirl. this replaces the normal legendary monk whirl attack stun.
those last 2 require monk as control class, of course. "monk level" always includes legendary levels, if control class. all these changes do not cause any vulnerability to opposing elements.
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 22, 2007 3:33:28 GMT
In response I know at first it seems like this class will get some crazy protective abilitys, BUT also think for a moment about the sacrafices you will have to make. The easiest way to do this is create a new toon, keep the STR as low as possible adn buy about 5 suits of Plate. Then walk around. You will still move faster than a Fully pimped out level 60 Chosen. Thats hard core man. Running away is NOT an option. Not to mention you have to be able to be worth it for a party to drag you along. Without massive protection you will get chopped down. However I am flexible and would like to see this build come to life. I am sure Funky if interested at all, will review you guys suggestions and make it work in the most balanced way possible. After all he know balance more than anybody else here . Thanks alot for helping me find a way to balance this class. In support of this quasi-class: As a player of a half-ogre fighter - even with haste you are still slower than the rest of your party. As a lowbie it is amazing that the rest of the party will send you in first because of your HP and damage ability. This idea is a very good one and would be very fun I think because: 1) You need Half-Ogre (Secret Subrace) 2) You need to be dedicated to the build concept 3) The slowness of this Quasi-Class Arguments For This Quasi Class: It can be said that with haste the slowness can be defeated. Right and wrong. With haste you can move faster. You are still much slower than a level 1 Paladin with haste. You can port to your party leader once they move up. In most areas with the Rate of Spawn (RoS) and the distance at which party combat makes Scry Device unusable; Scry - Port to Party Leader is simply not a good side-step to the slowness issue. In most legendary areas (Thids, Pyramid?, Ssithrak, Beholders, Dustbone, Hells) you cannot port because of planar restrictions. The Subrace base stats: "Half-Ogre" (secret subrace) - requires Half-Orc (changes Appearance) STR +3, CON +2, DEX -2, Int -2, CHA -2, increases character size to large, reduced base movement rate - slow This is a lot to work against because when you reach the quasi class your STR ( char creation bonus +5 ) is brought to BASE 8. Your Int is low at character creation hurting your ability for skill points as well. And your Charisma (because NWN treats CHA as a mark of beauty instead of strength of personal character) is abysmal making any use of Paladin or other CHA based save type for splash pretty pointless. I would LOVE to play test something like this and hope it can be a possibility.
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Post by exidorthequick on Jan 22, 2007 5:51:34 GMT
It can be said that with haste the slowness can be defeated. Right and wrong. With haste you can move faster. You are still much slower than a level 1 Paladin with haste. That's taken care of in DragonChyld's original design. At legendary levels, the Chosen becomes immune to haste spells and effects. The Chosen will be about as slow as slow gets. You can port to your party leader once they move up. In most areas with the Rate of Spawn (RoS) and the distance at which party combat makes Scry Device unusable; Scry - Port to Party Leader is simply not a good side-step to the slowness issue. In most legendary areas (Thids, Pyramid?, Ssithrak, Beholders, Dustbone, Hells) you cannot port because of planar restrictions. In areas where teleport to leader isn't an option the speed will be a big drawback, I agree. I don't think that the speed penalty (and -4 AC due to no haste) is enough to offset the potential power. I'd be willing to tolerate a lot of inconvenience and waiting in order to have someone in a group with me who was very unlikely to die, because this would mean that I'd be very unlikely to ever fugue. However, I can accept that others may not see the benefit to be gained by tolerating the drawback that would come with grouping with a Chosen. If a Chosen were to find it difficult to group with others because of the movement speed penalty, then it would be a serious drawback. The Subrace base stats: "Half-Ogre" (secret subrace) - requires Half-Orc (changes Appearance) STR +3, CON +2, DEX -2, Int -2, CHA -2, increases character size to large, reduced base movement rate - slow This is a lot to work against because when you reach the quasi class your STR ( char creation bonus +5 ) is brought to BASE 8. Your Int is low at character creation hurting your ability for skill points as well. I don't understand what you mean. If you were to build a Half-Ogre and not spend any points increasing your strength, you would have a strength of 13 (8 base + 2 Half-Orc + 3 Half-Ogre) after relogging to have racial effects applied. Yes, you would have to put a lot of points into intelligence to have a decent number of skill points, however this is true of every Half-Ogre, not just those who become Chosen. I'm not sure that it's right to factor this in as a disadvantage of the Vaprak's Chosen quasiclass when a Half-Ogre Rogue (for example) faces the same penalty. Half-Ogres lose 4 Int, 4 Cha, and 2 Dex, gaining in return 5 Str and 2 Con, plus are large size but have slow base movement. Either that's a balanced race or it's not. If not, then adjustments should be made to the race itself.
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Post by exidorthequick on Jan 22, 2007 6:41:54 GMT
Singing Saint ( see above) I think Bard and Paladin already work pretty well together. A couple of your suggestions seem a little problematic to me: At 40: Taunt Skill Gains +1 to Lower Enemy AC per 5/LL on Successful Taunt ( -11AC @60 ?) At 40: Taunt Skill Gains +1 rank per 2/LL ( 43 + n + 10) From what I've been reading, I think that these are both examples of abilities that are too difficult to implement. Maybe Funky can let us know if that's the case. At 60: 1/4 of Total Base CHA score is added to STR (or BAB or both - whichever is feasible or more reasonable) At 60: 1/4 of Total Base CHA score is added to CON. A normal human starting with 18 Cha could have a base Cha of 52 at level 60 of the Singing Saint quasiclass. That would be 13 free points of Str (or AB) and 13 free points of Con, in addition to the 4 points of Str, Con, and Cha that were awarded during legendary level advancement, for a total of 38 free stat points. A RDD only gets 32 points of stat increases, and they had to buy most of their increases by burning up 10 feat slots. All the Singing Saint has to do to earn these points is to keep raising their prime attribute at every opportunity. Monk Elementalist ( see above) I think that in order to qualify as a quasiclass, this concept would need to be expanded to include two classes. Also, I seem to remember Funky posting somewhere that on-hit damage for unarmed attacks was too much of a pain to be worth the effort. I like the idea of joining in elemental effects with a monk, and had started working on a Druid/Monk elementalist of my own, who would imbue a weapon with elemental damage (among other powers). I've set it aside for the moment because it started getting too complicated.
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 22, 2007 16:49:20 GMT
Singing Saint ( see above) I think Bard and Paladin already work pretty well together. A couple of your suggestions seem a little problematic to me: At 40: Taunt Skill Gains +1 to Lower Enemy AC per 5/LL on Successful Taunt ( -11AC @60 ?) At 40: Taunt Skill Gains +1 rank per 2/LL ( 43 + n + 10) From what I've been reading, I think that these are both examples of abilities that are too difficult to implement. Maybe Funky can let us know if that's the case. At 60: 1/4 of Total Base CHA score is added to STR (or BAB or both - whichever is feasible or more reasonable) At 60: 1/4 of Total Base CHA score is added to CON. A normal human starting with 18 Cha could have a base Cha of 52 at level 60 of the Singing Saint quasiclass. That would be 13 free points of Str (or AB) and 13 free points of Con, in addition to the 4 points of Str, Con, and Cha that were awarded during legendary level advancement, for a total of 38 free stat points. A RDD only gets 32 points of stat increases, and they had to buy most of their increases by burning up 10 feat slots. All the Singing Saint has to do to earn these points is to keep raising their prime attribute at every opportunity. I've updated original post for Singing Saint based on comments.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 22, 2007 17:05:32 GMT
Don't do that in this thread. You decontextualize all the following posts, making deciphering them that much harder. Funky
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 22, 2007 17:26:48 GMT
I don't understand what you mean. If you were to build a Half-Ogre and not spend any points increasing your strength, you would have a strength of 13 (8 base + 2 Half-Orc + 3 Half-Ogre) after relogging to have racial effects applied. Yes, you would have to put a lot of points into intelligence to have a decent number of skill points, however this is true of every Half-Ogre, not just those who become Chosen. I'm not sure that it's right to factor this in as a disadvantage of the Vaprak's Chosen quasiclass when a Half-Ogre Rogue (for example) faces the same penalty. Half-Ogres lose 4 Int, 4 Cha, and 2 Dex, gaining in return 5 Str and 2 Con, plus are large size but have slow base movement. Either that's a balanced race or it's not. If not, then adjustments should be made to the race itself. It was my understanding that when you became one of the chosen you were crippled in many ways. One of those being that your STR, no matter what it was, was brought to BASE 8.
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