Post by exidorthequick on Jan 31, 2007 21:25:21 GMT
Artillerist (see here)
I like this quasiclass concept, but it looks like a lot of work to implement. I suspect that any "technological" quasiclass will suffer from this flaw, since they will probably all involve a bunch of little toys (powers or items or whatever) that have to be custom-made.
(Acaos, I really like that you added comments about your rationale, and that you colored them cyan. Helpful and effective.)
Death of the Earth (see here)
I like this quasiclass idea. I'd suggest adding Stealthy and Alertness as additional prerequisites. Ranger spells other than those you mentioned should use Ranger Level + (Assassin Level / 3) as caster level. If possible, they should get an item upon achieving 20 levels of ranger which allows them to add acid damage to the attacks of an creature they summon with their epic summon ability (to allow for a Death of the Earth build with ranger as control class). (It might be simpler to replace the normal ranger summon item with an item that summons a creature that already has the extra acid damage applied, which would be fine.)
Song of the Sky (see here)
I think this is a good quasiclass idea. I suggest adding the Artist feat as a requirement. This will ensure that at least one Bard level is taken prior to L20, which will reduce the max BAB of the class by 1 (to offset the quasiclass's bonuses). For spells you haven't mentioned, caster level should be Bard Level + (Ranger Level / 3). Also, you might consider adding Still Spell to the list of requirements, and awarding Auto Still Spell 1 - 3 to the bonuses, to encourage the possibility of non-dexer versions of this build.
Caster Bard (see here)
I think that in order to be considered a quasiclass, a second class would be needed. I don't see anything wrong with helping out caster bards, but it seems like that should be done through changes to the bard class itself.
Theurge (see here)
I strongly suspect that this quasiclass concept is overpowered. It seems to me that using (caster level + (other caster level - 3)) for spell level and penetration will make the Theurge remarkably effective at casting virtually any spell. As you noted under DC's, however, too much of a penalty will make the quasiclass worthless. I'm not sure where the balance point is...if Funky decides to go with this quasiclass then finding a healthy balance between superior spell access and reduced effectiveness will be critical.
Shaman (see here)
I think that your proposed values for caster level and spell penetration are too advantageous. For the spells listed, calculating penetration using Druid Level + Barbarian Level is fine, but caster level should be reduced to Druid Level + Barbarian Level. For other spells, however, penetration and caster level should be based off Druid Level + (Barbarian Level / 3). Your spellbook changes are interesting, and I don't see a problem with them, except that they might be too much work to implement. If that's the case, I think that the quasiclass would still work out okay just using the default spell progression for Druids.
Emerald Adept (see here)
For spells not listed, caster level and spell penetration should be based off Sorcerer Level + (Monk Level / 3). This physical damage resistance ability might be a little under-powered, in the sense that it won't stack* with the damage resistance from equipment. I think it would be better to change this ability to a % immunity, since this would stack. If the formula remains the same, that would be 40% physical immunity at L60. Also, I think some higher level spells should be added to the Emerald Adept special spell list, to provide some incentive to take more Sorcerer levels.
It only uses Monk levels, so it would cap at 52%. That seems like a lot, although the shield can potentially be dispelled.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some high level items that approach (or maybe reach) +20 deflection. Since deflection bonuses don't stack, this might not be as impressive as it sounds.
If the focus needs to be shifted back to Con, then just replace the Epic Fortitude prerequisite with Epic Damage Reduction I, which will force the Adept to reach 21 Con by L30.
Dwarven Warchanter (see here)
Basing caster level off Bard Level + (DD Level * 3/5) seems too advantageous. Bard Level + (DD Level / 3) is more in line with the current quasiclasses. I don't like the idea of restricting Chant of Nullification to a single build, so if it is too powerful as written then maybe it could be changed to have a chance of preventing all spells from being cast, with some sort of opposed check (sort of like the Warchanter was counterspelling every spell in the area, with bonuses to make success of the counterspell very likely). If that's too complicated then maybe it could cause a flat 95% non-epic failure. I like this quasiclass, but I'm concerned that it gets to take advantage of all of the DD abilities, so perhaps Warchanters should be denied access to Defensive Weave, to balance this quasiclass with other DD builds.
Edit:
* It just occurred to me that this would stack, as long as it functions like Barbarian or Dwarven Defender damage reduction...and I expect that it would. (In fact, I'm not sure why I didn't immediately assume that it would stack.) The proposed ability does not need to be changed if it does stack.
I like this quasiclass concept, but it looks like a lot of work to implement. I suspect that any "technological" quasiclass will suffer from this flaw, since they will probably all involve a bunch of little toys (powers or items or whatever) that have to be custom-made.
(Acaos, I really like that you added comments about your rationale, and that you colored them cyan. Helpful and effective.)
Death of the Earth (see here)
I like this quasiclass idea. I'd suggest adding Stealthy and Alertness as additional prerequisites. Ranger spells other than those you mentioned should use Ranger Level + (Assassin Level / 3) as caster level. If possible, they should get an item upon achieving 20 levels of ranger which allows them to add acid damage to the attacks of an creature they summon with their epic summon ability (to allow for a Death of the Earth build with ranger as control class). (It might be simpler to replace the normal ranger summon item with an item that summons a creature that already has the extra acid damage applied, which would be fine.)
Song of the Sky (see here)
I think this is a good quasiclass idea. I suggest adding the Artist feat as a requirement. This will ensure that at least one Bard level is taken prior to L20, which will reduce the max BAB of the class by 1 (to offset the quasiclass's bonuses). For spells you haven't mentioned, caster level should be Bard Level + (Ranger Level / 3). Also, you might consider adding Still Spell to the list of requirements, and awarding Auto Still Spell 1 - 3 to the bonuses, to encourage the possibility of non-dexer versions of this build.
Caster Bard (see here)
I think that in order to be considered a quasiclass, a second class would be needed. I don't see anything wrong with helping out caster bards, but it seems like that should be done through changes to the bard class itself.
Theurge (see here)
I strongly suspect that this quasiclass concept is overpowered. It seems to me that using (caster level + (other caster level - 3)) for spell level and penetration will make the Theurge remarkably effective at casting virtually any spell. As you noted under DC's, however, too much of a penalty will make the quasiclass worthless. I'm not sure where the balance point is...if Funky decides to go with this quasiclass then finding a healthy balance between superior spell access and reduced effectiveness will be critical.
Shaman (see here)
I think that your proposed values for caster level and spell penetration are too advantageous. For the spells listed, calculating penetration using Druid Level + Barbarian Level is fine, but caster level should be reduced to Druid Level + Barbarian Level. For other spells, however, penetration and caster level should be based off Druid Level + (Barbarian Level / 3). Your spellbook changes are interesting, and I don't see a problem with them, except that they might be too much work to implement. If that's the case, I think that the quasiclass would still work out okay just using the default spell progression for Druids.
Emerald Adept (see here)
For spells not listed, caster level and spell penetration should be based off Sorcerer Level + (Monk Level / 3). This physical damage resistance ability might be a little under-powered, in the sense that it won't stack* with the damage resistance from equipment. I think it would be better to change this ability to a % immunity, since this would stack. If the formula remains the same, that would be 40% physical immunity at L60. Also, I think some higher level spells should be added to the Emerald Adept special spell list, to provide some incentive to take more Sorcerer levels.
resonance378 said:
Would all levels previous and including Quasi-Class count towards the Immunity % or only Monk levels? or Quasi-Monk levels? If so that's 60% immunity to fire, cold, elec, acid, sonic at level 60 correct?resonance378 said:
+20 deflection... what in this build stops someone from going dex crazy? I don't see any minuses to going to the quasi that would make this anything other than a dex build.resonance378 said:
I know you want to make it a CON and WIS focus build but I don't really see where.Dwarven Warchanter (see here)
Basing caster level off Bard Level + (DD Level * 3/5) seems too advantageous. Bard Level + (DD Level / 3) is more in line with the current quasiclasses. I don't like the idea of restricting Chant of Nullification to a single build, so if it is too powerful as written then maybe it could be changed to have a chance of preventing all spells from being cast, with some sort of opposed check (sort of like the Warchanter was counterspelling every spell in the area, with bonuses to make success of the counterspell very likely). If that's too complicated then maybe it could cause a flat 95% non-epic failure. I like this quasiclass, but I'm concerned that it gets to take advantage of all of the DD abilities, so perhaps Warchanters should be denied access to Defensive Weave, to balance this quasiclass with other DD builds.
Edit:
* It just occurred to me that this would stack, as long as it functions like Barbarian or Dwarven Defender damage reduction...and I expect that it would. (In fact, I'm not sure why I didn't immediately assume that it would stack.) The proposed ability does not need to be changed if it does stack.