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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 9, 2007 12:22:45 GMT
you've not read all of it: ;-)
You HAVE brought me to an idea: Spells are cast just as a Blackguard does. This means no charisma requirement...
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Post by johannhowitzer on Aug 10, 2007 0:21:53 GMT
Nah, I like the requirement of CHA and WIS for this build. CHA only need be 16, and doesn't CON get overwritten by wind elemental shape? Thus you'll need 19 WIS/16 CHA, which leaves precious few points to spare for DEX. I like this build's nerfs... really balances things out and provides for some diverse class ratios and build concepts. I suspect the DEX overriding of elemental shape is hard-coded, which is probably why Funky's saying no, but I'll let him speak to that of course. As for Whirlwind, this quasi can easily lose it without too much hurt, and the bug is a nasty obstacle anyway.
LOVE the idea though. Would play one in a heartbeat... I am a fan of the air elemental appearance, and was dismayed when I found I couldn't make that shape work on other "normal" NWN servers!
EDIT: Checking the subby chart, I can see that anyone who happens to have Rilminai or Half-Celestial would have a big edge, meeting the WIS/CHA requirements almost automatically. Erinyes might also be an option, with its high DEX, but that brings up another point...
Splashing AA almost makes this quasi TOO powerful. Erinyes Elf with the inclusion of Bard and Evasion etc for free just makes it a no-brainer, and you don't even need Zen. That means the correct build with just a level or five of AA would be able to manage light offensive spellcasting, partybuffing including shunt, tanking, "dancing," AND archery all practically at the same time. I'm not sure we want to go there... AA might have to be restricted at the very least?
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 10, 2007 7:41:53 GMT
Yes I have been thinking about restricting classes, but could not find any reasons... Although... AA requires arcane spellcasting, and well, the bard levels were because 1) no druid/bard quasi so far 2) bard song 3) gust of wind. And since gust of wind is no longer a real spell and a CW is practically a kind of druid, one might say all of his spellcasting is divine/natural and not arcane which is required for AA. Another way is giving certain feats only to pure CW's...
About Air Elemental shift: Perhaps we can "fake" the actual transforming, by making it a tensers transformation with spellfailure and all the other bonuses of the shape... from NWNwiki:
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 13, 2007 9:18:30 GMT
Ok, since there have been no real negative replies so far, I think it is time to think out the details of the Cloudwalker, tweak some numbers, balance it out some more. I have not got a lot of experience in legendary levels, so a little help is welcome At CW level 40 (not including LL's), the CW's appearance will change into that of an Elder Air elemental.Does it really matter at what level this change comes? It's mainly to add some flavour to the quasi, something to reward pure CW's with, and untill a character has reached level 40, you cannot tell if a character is pure or not. Recieves the abilty to do a Weather Dance, which will use up 1 bard song: a (modified) Storm of Vengeance will move with the caster. This storm is not a spell and will therefore not require spell penetration checks.The area of effect should be something like a dragon's fear aura. As for the damage and effect of this storm, I will need some help specifying this. Higher ground adds 3d6 fire damage at casterlevel 30 and up, but I think this is too weak for a lvl 60 CW. Therefore, it should be based on perform skill. I was thinking along the lines of cold and lightning damage, along with movementspeed decrease, knockdown, deaf, stun and "panick". If a monster who is caught in the storm is not strong enough, he will be knocked down. Stronger mobs will have their movementspeed decreased, depending on their strength. Cold damage is suffered by all foes within the AoE. Those failing a reflex save versus lightning will suffer electricity damage and will be stunned if they fail a fortitude save as well (only when the reflex save failed). Those monsters that were struck by lightning (regardless of the outcome of their reflex saves), must succeed in a fortitude save, or they will be deafened. The dancing, combined with the roaring of the wind and the general chaos caused by the storm will be rather intimidating, causing the monsters to either run panicked, or suffer penalties (extremely similar to intimidating rage ). Now the tricky part: DC and damage. TBH, I have absolutely no idea what the saves are of the mobs you encounter in high-level areas. The only clues I have are that good casters have good enough DCs and that is what I will use. Base DC 10, add dexterity modifier, add something equivalent to "spell level". Perform/10 will result in the the storm being equal to a lvl 13 spell at level 55 (using the calculation from below, where I discuss duration). Considering the possible need to put some points in wisdom, I'm guessing this is quite allright. But what damage does the average caster do in 40 minutes? A lvl 60 bomb would deal an average of 330 divine damage, a level 60 earthquake, would do 270 positive on average. But a level 60 caster will not be casting bombs for 40 minutes in a row. The damage done by the storm is not exotic damage, but elemental, and I reckon monsters have way more elemental resistances than exotic. I think the perform skill is a good number. Randomness can be added: (perform/#)d(2*#) for an average, little above the perform skill, with bigger # resulting in average closer to perform. As for the knockdown and "slow" effects, strength checks would be more "accurate" than fortitude saves (which are used in regular gusts of wind). Failing a strength check against perform/2 will result in knockdown. Otherwise, (50-strMOD*2)% movementspeed decrease. Every perform/2 seconds, a bard song will be used to "feed" the storm.Meaning, that unless the storm is ended manually (using the "Weather Dance" item a second times will do this), it will use up a bard song after perform/2 seconds, allowing another perform/2 seconds of storm, at which point another song is used to allow.... etc. If I am correct, the maximum perform a CW can possibly get (provided he puts everything into dex, apart from what is needed to cast spells) is 63base+13focus+50bonus+9charisma=135. Resulting in a maximum storm duration of (135/2)*34= 2295 seconds or 38,25 minutes at level 60, with 30 pre-legendary bard levels and the extra music feat. (this brings up a question: do legendary bards get additional songs? if this is true 60,75 minutes will be the maximum duration) CW's cast spells much like sorcerers (and bards) do. This counts for all CW spells (including those of druid kind).I admit I have no idea how much spells per day an epic sorcerer gets, because www.nwnwiki.org/Sorcerer only goes up to level 20. Do these number increase with epic/legendary sorcerer levels as well as high charisma? Or is it charisma only that provides additional uses? If the first is true, sorcerer level = bard level + druid level + legendary levels (if CC is bard or druid) and charisma modifier = dexterity modifier, for porpuses of determining spells per day. Otherwise, charisma modifier = dexterity modifier. As for known spells, that depends on how the CW-spellcasting will be done. Is there indeed a script that uses DecreaseRemainingSpellUses or is it hardcoded? If the first is true, having the DecreaseRemainingSpellUses act differently when a CW casts a CW spell, is all that is required (as I have posted before, decreasing the corresponding integer by 1, when a spell is cast, and resetting all the integers to their maximum on rest). Otherwise, it should be similar to how blackguards cast their spells, without the need to memorize spells. Spell DCs for all spells are equal to 10 + spell level + (DEX modifier).This depends on how the spellcasting is done: if it uses the blackguard version, no charisma or wisdom are really needed, meaning a CW can get as high DCs as normal spellcasters. Is this a problem? Casting normal druid and bard spells will still need charisma and wisdom, and the CWs are not the most versatile when it comes to casting spells. Also, perhaps the use of dexterity instead of wisdom or charisma should be for CW spells only, to restrict druid types from casting eq/bombs almost as efficiently (same goes for bard spells, of course). Or is this the slight lack of spellcaster levels enough of a "downfall" already? (this is where help would be very welcome ) For some spells, casterlevels and Spell penetration are equal to CW level.I would like to add legendary levels to CW level calculation, if the CW's control class is druid or bard. More to come... Oh and please, please, discuss these numbers, as I'm sure some of them might be too low or too high.
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 14, 2007 14:24:58 GMT
I think I found a solution for the "Improved Air Elemental Shape". I'ts called Storm Avatar www.nwn2wiki.org/Storm_avatarGood replacement for warcry don't you think? Perhaps the missile deflection is a little too much, and perhaps an AB increase similar to Divine Power/Tensers. What d'you think?
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Post by johannhowitzer on Aug 14, 2007 15:34:07 GMT
You do realize that's a shape from NWN2, not NWN, right?
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 15, 2007 11:34:26 GMT
You do realize that's a shape from NWN2, not NWN, right? It's a spell from NWN2, yes. But no polymorph required for HG... Just the lightning damage, speed increase and KD immunity. And AB bonus instead of missile deflection, together with 100% spellfailure (to simulate shapechanging). Ok, let me restructure the CW spell list. B means originaly a bard spell, D means originally a druid spell, * means the spell will be altered severely: Level 1 -Balagarn's iron horn* B -Expeditious retreat* B -Endure elements D -Ultravision D Level 2 -Cat's Grace B -Eagle's splendor B -Ghostly visage B -Owl's wisdom B -Ultravision B -One with the land* D -Resist elements D Level 3 -Displacement B -Gust of wind* B -Haste B -Magic circle against alignment B -Call lightning D -Protection from elements D Level 4 -Freedom of movement* D -War cry* B Level 5 -Death ward D -Ice storm D -Owl's insight D -Spell resistance D -Ethereal visage* B Level 6 -Energy buffer D/B -Ice storm B -Mass haste* B Level 7 -Fire storm* D -True seeing D Level 8 -Premonition D Level 9 -Storm of vengeance* D -Balagarn's iron horn: will be an exact copy of the mage spell Great Thunderclap, centered on the caster (counts as a lvl 1 spell for purposes of calculating DC's, instead of level 7). -Expiditious retreat and Freedom of Movement bonuses stack, but only when both are cast by the CW. -Gust of wind: the CW gets unlimited casts and does not require a spell penetration check, to reflect the fact that it is no longer a spell, rather it's an ability. The spell acts as a normal Gust of wind when ground is targeted. Any other target (monsters, placables) will recieve physical damage (bludgeoning) as well as a harder to resist knockdown effect (+1/6 casterlevels bonus to DC) ON THE TARGET ONLY (requires ranged touch-attack, no longer removes gasses and such, becuase it has no AoE). The damage will be 1d6/2 levels of CW to a maximum of 30d6 at level 60. -Mass haste: will add 1% per 4 casterlevels movementspeed increase in addition to the normal haste effect, to a maximum of 15% movementspeed increase. -One with the land: When casting One with the Air, the CW will "change" into a small whirlwind (an aura the size of the Silence aura will suffice). Anything entering the aura will have a Gust of wind cast directly on it (to a max of 1 per round), as well as each round it stays within the circle afterwards. The CW will recieve an AB penalty of 20, 100% spellfailure and a movement speed increase and concealment vs missile weapons of 1% per casterlevel, to a maximum of 60% at casterlevel 60 (any missile comming close will have it's course altered due to the very strong winds). -Fire storm: will deal cold damage instead of firedamage. -Storm of vengeance: instead of acid damage, cold damage will be dealt and instead of fire damage a Gust of wind will be cast (dealing only 3d6 damage). -Warcry: When casting "Storm Avatar", the CW recieves 39%+1% per casterlevel (max 99%) movementspeed increase, 1d10 +1 per 4 casterlevels (max 1d10+15) electricity damage bonus, 100% spellfailure, immunity to knockdown, AB increase (just like Tenser's/Divine power). -Ethereal Visage: No penalties if the CW is a pure CW. Resulting in 9 major spellchanges, and 31 changes to casterlevel.
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 28, 2007 13:30:35 GMT
I was just wondering about the chance of this quasi being implemented. In other words, is it worked out enough as it is now? Or do I need to work out any details I've missed so far? If so, what details? A word from the funky one would be very appreaciated.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 28, 2007 15:41:21 GMT
I haven't seen a uniform build reposted since the original, which I nixed. Forget stacking speed increases as well, they don't work at present, though may once 1.69 debuts. Funky
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Post by nicnik on Aug 28, 2007 16:00:40 GMT
This Quassi looks better witht he upcoming changes, but I'm worried it still has no use in the mod (in hell especially).
Perhaps this Quassi would be good, but that solely depends on how useful the Summons will be once it's been implemented.
However it uses dex to calc dc, and with the new druid changes to AC, perhaps it's pretty decent to make this a melee druid/bard. Should get a tonne of ac at least.
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 28, 2007 19:06:59 GMT
I haven't seen a uniform build reposted since the original, which I nixed. Forget stacking speed increases as well, they don't work at present, though may once 1.69 debuts. Funky kk, I'll repost all of it in 1 post, just to have it in 1 post. Thanx for the reply in any case, keeps me from being uncertain... And about those stacking speed increases: having each of the two spells check for the other spell to be active, and if so, improve speed by such an amount as if the spells stack... unless I've absolutely no idea how you managed the speed increases. and as to its use: damage. But perhaps healing circle as CW spell would make it more useful, what do you think?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 28, 2007 20:46:54 GMT
You have no idea how we implemented speed increases. The bioware function to do it is bugged and will not increase past haste speed. Funky
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 29, 2007 11:24:37 GMT
You have no idea how we implemented speed increases. The bioware function to do it is bugged and will not increase past haste speed. Funky Thanx for telling me Keeps me from thinking thngs that cannot be thought...
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 30, 2007 10:27:05 GMT
Cloud Walker Quasiclass ====================== Requirements: Must have 10 levels of Bard, 10 levels of Druid and Whirlwind Attack before level 22. May not have any levels of Arcane Archer, before or after acquiring Cloud Walker status. Benefits: +Recieves the Improved whirlwind attack, Uncanny dodge and Evasion feats for free. +At CW level 40 (not including LL's), the CW's appearance will change into that of an Elder Air elemental. +Recieves the Air Blast item, with unlimited casts of Gust of wind. The speed at which the Air Blast can be used is similar to normal spellcasting. See Gust of wind for details. +Recieves the abilty (item use) to do a Weather Dance, which will use up 1 bard song every perform/2 seconds. This goes on untill the CW stops dancing (using the item a second time). This dance calls a violent storm to rage wherever the CW goes (the area of effect being a dragon's fear aura). Each round, all enemies caught in the storm must succeed in a strength check against perform/2 to avoid knockdown, suffer (perform/6)d12 cold damage, make a reflex save versus (perform/6)d12 electricity damage, a fortitude save versus deaf and a will save versus panick (perform/40 penalty to saves, AB and skills). On a failed reflex save, another fortitude save is made to avoid stun. All DC's are 10 + dexterity modifier + perform/10. + CW's cast spells much like sorcerers (and bards) do. This counts for all CW spells (including those of druid kind). I can think of two different methods to do this. The first decreases "spells per day" integers when a CW spell is cast and prevent the spell from "dememorizing" normally. The second uses items, much like a blackguard casts his spells, without the need to memorize anything before casting. Spells per day should be equal to a sorcerer of the CW level, with charisma equal to dexterity. +Spell DCs for all CW spells are equal to 10 + spell level + dexterity modifier. Casterlevels and Spell penetration for those spells are equal to CW level (including legendary levels, if the CW's control class is druid or bard). The list of CW spells: (B means originaly a bard spell, D means originally a druid spell, * means the spell will be altered severely) Level 1 -Balagarn's iron horn* B -Expeditious retreat* B -Endure elements D -Ultravision D Level 2 -Cat's Grace B -Eagle's splendor B -Ghostly visage B -Owl's wisdom B -Ultravision B -One with the land* D -Resist elements D Level 3 -Displacement B -Gust of wind* B -Haste B -Magic circle against alignment B -Call lightning D -Protection from elements D Level 4 -Freedom of movement* D -War cry* B Level 5 -Death ward D -Ice storm D -Owl's insight D -Spell resistance D -Ethereal visage* B Level 6 -Healing circle D -Energy buffer D/B -Ice storm B -Mass haste* B Level 7 -Fire storm* D -True seeing D Level 8 -Premonition D Level 9 -Storm of vengeance* D -Balagarn's iron horn: will be an exact copy of the mage spell Great Thunderclap, centered on the caster (counts as a lvl 1 spell for purposes of calculating DC's, instead of level 7). -When Expiditious retreat is cast, if the CW still has a cast left at spell level 4, a use of Freedom of movement is depleted. When this happens, the movementspeed bonus is doubled. (or not, if Funky thinks it won't work) -Gust of wind: When cast from the Air Blast item, Gust of wind no longer counts as a spell and does not require a spell penetration check, to reflect the fact that it is an ability, in stead of a spell. The Air Blast acts as a normal Gust of wind when ground is targeted. Any other target (monsters, placables) will recieve physical damage (bludgeoning) as well as a harder to resist knockdown effect (+1/6 casterlevels bonus to DC) ON THE TARGET ONLY (requires ranged touch-attack, no longer removes gasses and such, becuase it has no AoE). The damage will be 1d6/2 levels of CW to a maximum of 30d6 at level 60. -Mass haste: will add 1% per 4 casterlevels movementspeed increase in addition to the normal haste effect, to a maximum of 15% movementspeed increase. (or not, if Funky thinks it won't work) -One with the land: When casting One with the Air, the CW will "change" into a small whirlwind (an aura the size of the Silence aura will suffice). Anything entering the aura will have a Gust of wind cast directly on it (to a max of 1 per round), as well as each round it stays within the circle afterwards. The CW will recieve an AB penalty of 20, 100% spellfailure and a movement speed increase and concealment vs missile weapons of 1% per casterlevel, to a maximum of 60% at casterlevel 60 (any missile comming close will have it's course altered due to the very strong winds). (idem for movement, if Funky thinks it won't work) -Fire storm: will deal cold damage instead of firedamage. -Storm of vengeance: instead of acid damage, cold damage will be dealt and instead of fire damage a Gust of wind will be cast (dealing only 3d6 damage). -Warcry: When casting "Storm Avatar", the CW recieves 39%+1% per casterlevel (max 99%) movementspeed increase, 1d10 +1 per 4 casterlevels (max 1d10+15) electricity damage bonus, 100% spellfailure, immunity to knockdown, AB increase (just like Tenser's/Divine power). (idem ) -Ethereal Visage: No penalties if the CW is a pure CW. Restrictions: -May not wear armor heavier than robes and may not use shields. -No regular bard songs. -May not use Stilled spells.
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Post by MightyKhan on Dec 11, 2007 15:35:31 GMT
I decided to have a go at this one again: i removed the movespeed % bonuses, and the special spellcasting stuff.
Cloud Walker Quasiclass ====================== Requirements: Must have 10 levels of Bard, 10 levels of Druid and Whirlwind Attack before level 22. Having levels in AA will result in the loss of the CW status (AA requires ARCANE spellcasting, and the CW is NOT an arcane spellcaster). Benefits: +Recieves the Improved whirlwind attack, Uncanny dodge and Evasion feats for free. +At CW level 40 (not including LL's), the CW's appearance will change into that of an Elder Air elemental. +Recieves the Air Blast item, with unlimited casts of Gust of wind. The speed at which the Air Blast can be used is similar to normal spellcasting. See Gust of wind for details. +Recieves the abilty (item use) to do a Weather Dance, which will use up 1 bard song every perform/2 seconds. This goes on untill the CW stops dancing (using the item a second time). This dance calls a violent storm to rage wherever the CW goes (the area of effect being a dragon's fear aura). Each round, all enemies caught in the storm must succeed in a strength check against perform/2 to avoid knockdown, suffer (perform/6)d12 cold damage, make a reflex save versus (perform/6)d12 electricity damage, a fortitude save versus deaf and a will save versus panick (perform/40 penalty to saves, AB and skills). On a failed reflex save, another fortitude save is made to avoid stun. All DC's are 10 + dexterity modifier + perform/10. +Spell DCs for all CW spells are equal to 10 + spell level + dexterity modifier. Casterlevels and Spell penetration for those spells are equal to CW level (including legendary levels, if the CW's control class is druid or bard). The list of CW spells: (B means originaly a bard spell, D means originally a druid spell, * means the spell will be altered severely)
Level 1 -Balagarn's iron horn* B -Expeditious retreat* B -Endure elements D -Ultravision D
Level 2 -Cat's Grace B -Eagle's splendor B -Ghostly visage B -Owl's wisdom B -Ultravision B -One with the land* D -Resist elements D
Level 3 -Displacement B -Gust of wind* B -Haste B -Magic circle against alignment B -Call lightning D -Protection from elements D
Level 4 -Freedom of movement* D -War cry* B
Level 5 -Death ward D -Ice storm D -Owl's insight D -Spell resistance D -Ethereal visage* B -Healing circle B
Level 6 -Healing circle D -Energy buffer D/B -Ice storm B -Mass haste* B
Level 7 -Fire storm* D -True seeing D
Level 8 -Premonition D
Level 9 -Storm of vengeance* D
-Balagarn's iron horn: will be an exact copy of the mage spell Great Thunderclap, centered on the caster (counts as a lvl 7 spell for purposes of calculating DC's) Counts as an evocation spell.
-Expiditious retreat: the base bonus to movement is doubled: Adds 1m/s to the caster's base run rate, +0.5m/s at CL33, CL46, and CL59
-Gust of wind: When cast from the Air Blast item, Gust of wind no longer counts as a spell and does not require a spell penetration check, to reflect the fact that it is an ability, in stead of a spell. The Air Blast acts as a normal Gust of wind when ground is targeted. Any other target (monsters, placables) will recieve physical damage (bludgeoning) as well as a harder to resist knockdown effect (+1/6 casterlevels bonus to DC) ON THE TARGET ONLY (requires ranged touch-attack, no longer removes gasses and such, becuase it has no AoE). The damage will be 1d6/2 levels of CW to a maximum of 30d6 at level 60.
-Mass haste: in addition to haste effect, the recipients get 0.5m/s bonus to their base run rate
-One with the land: When casting One with the Air, the CW will "change" into a small whirlwind (an aura the size of the Silence aura will suffice). Anything entering the aura aoe will be dealt (CW level/2)d3 physical damage and must make a fortitude save, or be knocked prone. This is repeated each round, if the target stays in the aura. The CW will recieve concealment vs missile weapons of 1% per casterlevel, to a maximum of 60% at casterlevel 60 (any missile comming close will have it's course altered due to the very strong winds). Counts as an evocation.
-Fire storm: will deal cold damage instead of fire damage.
-Storm of vengeance: instead of acid damage, cold damage will be dealt and instead of fire damage a Gust of wind will be cast (dealing only 3d6 damage).
-Warcry: When casting "Storm Avatar", the CW recieves 1d10 +1 per 4 casterlevels (max 1d10+15) electricity damage bonus, immunity to knockdown, and an AB increase as if Divine Power was just cast.
-Ethereal Visage: No penalties if the CW is a pure CW.
Restrictions: -May not wear armor heavier than robes and may not use shields. -No regular bard songs. -May not use Stilled spells.
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