Subrace Half-invisible stalker

[Lythe Featherblade]

was browsing through models, and figured it would be nice if we had a few more non-standard playables.

Half-Invisible Stalker (Secret Beyond UltraRare, Changes Appearance) Base Race: Any, size: medium
FC: Ranger, rogue
Str +4, dex +6, int+2, wis +2, Cha -4, Able to walk on quicksand, Free feat: Epic Skill Focus Hide, Free feat: Self Conceal I, free feat: blindfighting, Free feat: Favorite Enemy: human
Hide +6, Move Silent +6, tumble +5
Speaks Auran

Model: Ghost: human (9 male, 9 female models available)

As for the creation of this... a mage summoned an invisible stalker and ordered it to produce halfbreeds with a number of slaves provided (in the hopes of being able to raise an army of natural assassins). Due to a lack of parameters specifying the location, the order was followed, but out of the reach of the mage. The resulting offspring now wander the mortal plane free from tyrannical control

[FunkySwerve]

How do you think this compares to other subbies used by rangers and rogues at present (erinyes and koly are the ones that spring to my mind, there may well be a number of others)? I ask because we want to ensure that a sub has a niche - otherwise it becomes a Furchin.

Funky

[jonuhey]

IMO, a true ranger subrace that would be better than the current ones would be one with at least 3 common Favored enemies already. To diversify the new areas that keep on growing the list of FE's a ranger should have.

FE: human, Self conceal and Blindfight are kinda wasted on the current ranger build on this server that uses a Blindfight pandect and have camouflage for conceal.

[Lythe Featherblade]

Ranger...
the favorite enemy is a bonus for any ranger build, so is the epic skill focus hide. Blindfighting is icing for most builds, delicious but not critical.
erinyes - the strength score allows for HIS strength builds, or better rounded dexers. Also erinyes itself already could use tweaking, with a feat swap for shortbows option, which would give it an advantage over HIS for different builds.
Kolyarut - the bonus wisdom makes HIS more viable for non-demi rangers, strength or dex.
Wemic - the size difference still allows wemics to finesse items like bastard swords, never mind the free called shot and weapon finesse, while this allows an alternative for those who don't like the wemic looks, or want the full strength bonuses on medium weapons.

Rogue - an alternative to kolyarut, for strength or dex builds, the self conceal 1 saves a feat, and the epic skill focus hide is good as well (especially for strength rogues).

Shadowdancers - the skill points make that easier, though I suppose it would need spring attack to be really effective. Given spring attack, it could open up as a race for shadowdancers, a class that does fit this race very well. This is an aspect I didn't put too much towards, as I didn't want to make it too powerful a race.

Assassin - here the hide/move silent is enough to allow something like a monk3/WM7assassin30 build for instance if you went human, with no room for level 1 enabler feats, or even a fighter 3 wm7 assassin 30.. would have to look at whether that becomes too powerful as a race then, and if the hide/MS needs to be dropped 1 point for starting. The 6 dex means you can still go for max DC.

Apr 17, 2010 22:11:55 GMT @jonuhey said:

IMO, a true ranger subrace that would be better than the current ones would be one with at least 3 common Favored enemies already. To diversify the new areas that keep on growing the list of FE's a ranger should have.

FE: human, Self conceal and Blindfight are kinda wasted on the current ranger build on this server that uses a Blindfight pandect and have camouflage for conceal.

Blindfight was something that fit the subrace well, while self conceal was to give it diversity for more than just a ranger race. Blindfight could easily be swapped out for something else (i.e. spring attack for SD's)

More favorite enemies would be good, but if you gave this subrace 3 common favorite enemies, with the trend of more diversity in enemies needed it would shortly replace all other subraces for ranger builds.


In short, I can see this subrace becoming viable for a lot of different builds, but I've tried to keep it diversified enough in feats/skills (instead of specialized for one) that it doesn't become the one and only subrace for certain classes.

[FunkySwerve]

Apr 17, 2010 22:11:55 GMT @jonuhey said:

IMO, a true ranger subrace that would be better than the current ones would be one with at least 3 common Favored enemies already. To diversify the new areas that keep on growing the list of FE's a ranger should have.

More FEs isn't possible, and we wouldn't want to do it anyway. The point of diversifying the number of useful FEs would be completely defeated by allowing more.

Funky

[bort]

I'd swap the str and dex for +6 str and +4 dex (maybe just +2?) and you'd finally have a decent STR assassin sub to match Half-Fiend.

[Lythe Featherblade]

That is a viable option too, and would fit the concept of the subrace.

Very little is known about these enigmatic and mysterious creatures, as their very nature makes details of their true form difficult to discern. Brought to this world from the Plane of Air, these creatures fulfill tasks for those who conjure them. Invisible stalkers act as guardians, assassins, and trackers, occupations in which they excel. Their natural invisibility and skill at stealth allow them to follow their quarry without detection and give them the upper hand when it comes to exterminating a mark.

source: paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/invisibleStalker.html#invisible-stalker

The half-breed concept came as a subrace with permanent, complete, undispellable unpurgable invisibility would not fit in on this server. If intended as a ranger/assassin subrace, the self conceal (and blindfighting) might be swappable for feats that would benefit either, such as extended spell, armor skin, or defensive roll (for epic dodge). I was considering as an assassin subrace but FC: assassin wasn't really needed being a prestige class.

As a ranger subrace, if you did go 6 str 2 dex, you would probably want at least 1 more directly useful ranger feat, although even at 6/2 it would be comparable with salamander.. which isn't actually a ranger subrace, and generally only gets considered for demi builds where the extra secondary stats (i.e. wis) from demi allow for greater flexibility in subraces.

[Lythe Featherblade]

This is how I would envision the strength version, designed for rangers and assassins:


Half-Invisible Stalker (Secret Beyond UltraRare, Changes Appearance) Base Race: Any, size: medium
FC: Ranger, rogue
Str +6, dex +3, int+2, wis +2, Cha -4, Able to walk on quicksand, Free feat: Epic Skill Focus Hide, Free feat: Snake Blood, free feat: Epic Prowess, Free feat: Favorite Enemy: human
Hide +6, Move Silent +6, tumble +5
Speaks Auran

Model: Ghost: human (9 male, 9 female models available) (1 shape in 3 shades, each with 3 different eye colors)

Dex was the truly tough one, I'd love for 4 dex, but am not sure if that is too overpowering, while 2 dex does seem a bit low considering the feats it has (especially compared to wemic for rangers). It may have 4 feats, but epic skill focus hide isn't critical, FE-Human is ranger specific, and snake blood only helps the assassin. With 6 strength and snake blood however this would become the prime strength assassin race of choice due to the lack of both discipline and parry as assassin skills, both which are vital for a strength build.

If we did want to make it a strength shadowdancer subrace as well, adding spring attack would allow SD levels after level 3 (with non-human, or with human and 1 level 1 enabler feat) using any starting class that gets hide/MS.

[MightyKhan]

Shadowdancers don't need spring attack. Dodge and mobility are all that's needed.

[Lythe Featherblade]

guess that's what I get for doing too many things at once, must have had WM variants in my head when I was tweaking