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Post by Acaos on Aug 13, 2010 22:59:20 GMT
Why not allow great ability feats? All that will likely do is force reinc's to get the great ability feats earlier and all the epic and leggy feats later. Other than a build that has almost ONLY great ability feats, I can't see how this would have much of an effect other than to encourage reincarnations. This is necessary due to the Ability Swap implementation as currently planned (as usual, Things May Change). Acaos |
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Post by kralex on Aug 14, 2010 11:34:32 GMT
I know that as I said in my other post. But there is already a veeeery large gap between lv 40 and 60 [...]. Why not do the same with this? You already gave the reason. The power gap between 40 and 60 is so great that level 40 areas are pointless for level 60s; likewise current end-game areas would be pointless for level 80 paragons if we had the same power gap there. You'd have to develop completely new content for paragons, and NWN just doesn't have enough lifetime left to warrant that development effort. |
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Post by jonuhey on Aug 14, 2010 12:54:33 GMT
I know that as I said in my other post. But there is already a veeeery large gap between lv 40 and 60 [...]. Why not do the same with this? You already gave the reason. The power gap between 40 and 60 is so great that level 40 areas are pointless for level 60s; likewise current end-game areas would be pointless for level 80 paragons if we had the same power gap there. You'd have to develop completely new content for paragons, and NWN just doesn't have enough lifetime left to warrant that development effort. I actually said totally the contrary of what you said. There are a gap between lv 40 and 60, but you can still play there, and if there is a level requirement (like in toyshop or elemental planes or feywild) you go and shackle to get the loot. So just make hells capped at 65 or so, and make that a requirement to tags so that ppl will need to shackle. There are already paragon level 4 and 5 in the arena (that arent in the game yet) these could be added as well at some point. And I think NWN (especially HG) still have more than a year... and even more if level 80 stay strong and funny as there are a couple of old players that will come only to check them  Thou it would be Uber nice if shackling was possible without needing to remove gear. |
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Post by KnightErrant on Aug 14, 2010 15:03:15 GMT
Actually Hell/Abyss Mini Bosses turn into P4's if the Demi Count is 45 or higher iirc.
So some are already being fought in game on rare occasions.
KE.
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Aug 14, 2010 19:38:28 GMT
You already gave the reason. The power gap between 40 and 60 is so great that level 40 areas are pointless for level 60s; likewise current end-game areas would be pointless for level 80 paragons if we had the same power gap there. You'd have to develop completely new content for paragons, and NWN just doesn't have enough lifetime left to warrant that development effort. I actually said totally the contrary of what you said. There are a gap between lv 40 and 60, but you can still play there, and if there is a level requirement (like in toyshop or elemental planes or feywild) you go and shackle to get the loot. So just make hells capped at 65 or so, and make that a requirement to tags so that ppl will need to shackle. There are already paragon level 4 and 5 in the arena (that arent in the game yet) these could be added as well at some point. And I think NWN (especially HG) still have more than a year... and even more if level 80 stay strong and funny as there are a couple of old players that will come only to check them Thou it would be Uber nice if shackling was possible without needing to remove gear. You idea requires shackling. I HATE shackling. Were this to happen, I'd quit. I don't want to have to shackle just to go to hells. |
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Post by jonuhey on Aug 14, 2010 21:48:41 GMT
You idea requires shackling. I HATE shackling. Were this to happen, I'd quit. I don't want to have to shackle just to go to hells. Actually I think that even with the bonus you would get by that table, it would be very difficult to not make ppl shackle before playing in lv 60 areas. Even a +4 DC on spells would make hells unbalanced, as some ppl are already saying "its too easy, lets go to abyss". Dont understand me wrong, I also hate shackling. And tbh, Im gonna just shut up my "fingers" now before it comes, the Dev team has proved to choose the best option 99% of the time, so Im just gonna play and wait now |
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Post by Shakua on Aug 15, 2010 1:28:56 GMT
interesting on the ability swap so its possible over the course of them levels you could swap cha to wisdom and then latter on take that wisdom and covert to int ?
Other thoughts.
Im kinda split between leaving skills at the 63 cap as this still leaves it challenging for hells, but then again iv never have liked dealing with penaltys if i had something maxed out anyway.(but it sure would be nice make the disc checks vs a elite magebane !)
I take it paragon skill points are just 10 flat out and will not count intelligence bonus
6 bonus feats (bonus feats what has my interest the most here)
6 really? thats 2 more focus for a shifter. or 2 more focus for a arcane or cleric. extra spells on a sorc.
Extra focus in a weapon for my tanks would be a blessing too or picking up feats thats normaly too hard to pick up (epic skill focus taunt or extend spell seems to be the most common.)
The bonus hp, is that set or based on con mod?
I know none of it is set in stone for now but i think the bonuses are pretty good. It gives you an edge for such dedication for your favorate toons you play but not overpowering to make hells a cake walk either .
Just the 125mil exp for 80 is scary
currently highest exp i got is 78mil that has seen every area this mod has to offer and 5x (and countless reruns )-just to say, 20pct exp pens are killer on a main
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Aug 16, 2010 1:00:38 GMT
Just been playing with the numbers of some of my builds, and realizing a few things.
Hells level uni-tanks will be a fair bit easier to build, but abyss level uni tanks still seem a bit out of reach. I'm guessing though that the increase in paragon level may mean more paragon mobs, which will offset this.
DC based classes will have a bit more flexibility and still be able to max their DC determining stat. Builds like existing zen rangers won't actually gain much if anything directly (no max DC increase), but receive a lot more flexibility in races (no longer requiring one of 2 BUR races for max DC) and can fit in a couple more favorite enemies on a reincarnate.
I guess only time will tell what the actual implementation brings about.
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Post by ilovedietpepsi on Aug 16, 2010 2:16:14 GMT
I must agree with the Acaos here, we have to restrict the power level (at least certain aspects of it like the DC for one) of the paragon levels. Or it would render some of the areas like hell too easy. Now if they up the difficulties of these areas, that would in turn make L60 character useless.
Honestly even +3-4 dc is a Huge, i would rather it keeps at 1 or 2 points above where it is now. and add new abilities (more things to do) in Paragon level instead of making your character more powerful. This way, areas can be enjoyable and challenging for all spectrum of toons between 60 to 80.
I do have one concern here, Acaos:
As Funky mentioned in the original thread, Bard song will be useless in Hades, will there be other useful things for Bard class to do in general in there? As the songs are what defined this class. are there going to be new abilities added for the class? Being overly dependent on one class is one thing, totally (or partially) disable the core ability of that class dont seems to be the way to fix it.
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Post by ilovedietpepsi on Aug 16, 2010 2:32:35 GMT
Just the 125mil exp for 80 is scary currently highest exp i got is 78mil that has seen every area this mod has to offer and 5x (and countless reruns )-just to say, 20pct exp pens are killer on a main Yea im with Shak on this one, 125 mils seems to be insane, especially if you count 20% of reincarnation penalty, it takes many weeks (if not months) of dedicated play to get 20-30 millions of xp. and i mean Dedicated play of that one character. and as with all characters it quickly get boring if you keep playing that one toon. |
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Post by drunkenboaster on Aug 16, 2010 7:36:30 GMT
125 million xp is a lot, but I think it is fair. A reward for the toons used in the helper role instead of just the tag only role.
Are there any statistics of the number of toons that already have 100+ million xp already? I am sure it would not take long for a player to make up the last 25 million if level 80 was put in place tomorrow.
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Post by Balduvard on Aug 16, 2010 9:12:05 GMT
Are there any statistics of the number of toons that already have 100+ million xp already? I am sure it would not take long for a player to make up the last 25 million if level 80 was put in place tomorrow. No recent statistics. As of a year ago, there were only 4 characters with more than 100 million and only 2 with at least 125 million. I've gained 20 million on my AA in the past 5 months (at no XP penalty) through approximately 60 hours worth of runs...of course, the month before that (when Abyss dropped) I logged around 100 hours...so that's why my AA is at 110 mil now, a year and a half after creation (with a reincarnation around the start of this year and another planned). |
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Post by ilovedietpepsi on Aug 16, 2010 10:07:47 GMT
125 million xp is a lot, but I think it is fair. A reward for the toons used in the helper role instead of just the tag only role. Are there any statistics of the number of toons that already have 100+ million xp already? I am sure it would not take long for a player to make up the last 25 million if level 80 was put in place tomorrow. how many % of the very active players have toons with over 100 million xp? i know you have one (may be another player, but no longer playing), but i havent heard anyone else does. (if do they must have been long gone). Of course, if they raise the xp gain in higher level area MASSIVELY, that may be possible to get L80 in reasonable amount of time. |
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Post by MightyKhan on Aug 16, 2010 11:50:10 GMT
imo, being able to get to L80 is a reasonable amount of time subtracts from the feel of accomplishment that goes with having paragon levels.
it shouldn't be just another 20 levels you can race through, but more special than that, triggering reactions like "wow, that toon is ANCIENT".
But that's just what I personally feel paragon levels are like.
edit: I also don't think I would build with level 80 in mind ever. Getting to level 60 is very doable, but to me, paragon levels will just be the icing on the cake.
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Post by chainlink on Aug 16, 2010 12:37:20 GMT
I have one  I never reincarnated my first 5x demi caster cleric even though people always moan that I don't have IoF I wasn't willing to take the huge xp hit this would have given me even if there was no possibility of going higher than level 60. |
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