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Post by lostrozzacavalli on May 20, 2011 21:06:53 GMT
New here, decided turner looks like an interesting class. Problem was, how the hell do I build one without a nice subrace? Without that niche I thought I was screwed, then I found the under-used subrace Drow (Female) has +2 wisdom and charisma. Perfect for a turner! Problem was, gets a giant hit to constitution, -3! How would I overcome this? Turns out, I can't with the type of build I want, so I am just going to deal with it. You can make edits to fit your need but I believe this is the final version for my very first toon here. Open to suggestions, but I think I already have my mind set on this toon! This is an offense based open subrace turner, the best I could do with it! Defense is crap, offense is insane! Pros:- High Charisma for an open subrace!
- Ability to turn anything, within the turner limits of course!
- High DC on destructing enemies, highest TR possible!
Cons:- Low con, dex, str and int!
- Squishy due to low hitpoints and no LSF: Divination!
Make sure your character is FEMALE!Elf: Drow (FEMALE) Str: 08 Dex: 10 Con: 07 Wis: 17 Int: 08 Cha: 18 First two stat points into wisdom, rest into charisma! Fire and Plant Domains! Stat distribution should be 3 conc, 30 tumble. Read SPELL PEN book! Feats: 01: Spell Focus: Divination 03: Greater Spell Focus: Divination 06: Extra Turning 09: Toughness 12: Extend Spell 15: Empower Spell 18: Great Fortitude 21: Great Charisma I 23: Great Wisdom I 24: Great Charisma II 26: Great Wisdom II 27: Great Charisma III 29: Great Wisdom III 30: Great Charisma IV 32: Great Wisdom IV 33: Great Charisma V 35: Planar Turning 36: Great Charisma VI 38: Epic Spell Focus Divination 39: Great Charisma VII 42: Domain Power: Sun 45: Domain Power: Good 48: Domain Power: Destruction 51: Legendary Spell Penetration 54: Great Charisma VIII 57: Great Charisma IX 60: Great Charisma X That's the basics, anything to add just post! - lostrozzacavalli
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Post by lostrozzacavalli on May 20, 2011 21:07:26 GMT
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Post by lostrozzacavalli on May 20, 2011 21:07:42 GMT
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Post by lostrozzacavalli on May 20, 2011 21:08:04 GMT
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Post by Crazy on May 20, 2011 21:56:24 GMT
I think the problem is that in order to make a turner viable in endgame you really do need a good subrace. Turner is a bad option for newer players, and with BUR books being very easy to get now days, HC isn't terribly hard to get.
If you want to someday play as a turner, level up as a ploder and reincarnate (they are miserable to level). I think you will be disappointed with the survivability, and the DC being on the low end of being able to kill mobs.
When playing a turner you will find yourself in the middle of stuff every single pull, with prayer and battletide + your turns.
Maybe others disagree, but I think as a new player you would enjoy other classes or roles much more than turning.
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Post by tagnusd on May 20, 2011 22:47:47 GMT
Nice job! The build looks good for an open subrace turner, but what Crazy says is true. Turners are "useless" or slightly less so until they get above level 50. Before that will not be much fun. Level it as a ploder cleric which is a LOT more fun I think. Gain some experience and cash and then you can get a Half Celestial book to upgrade later.
Don't get me wrong, my only double-demi toon is a HC turner and it is my second favorite toon to play (after damage sorc) so I love turners.. yes, even after the nerf ontop of nerf!
EDIT** Although you could try to level it as the damage turner build that was recently posted and see how that goes. COuld amp up the fun level.
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Post by lostrozzacavalli on May 21, 2011 1:52:00 GMT
I've recieved a lot of negative feedback on this, so not trying to sound mean, but I am going to build this just to prove a few people wrong that this is a perfectly viable build. I also understand it will be hard to play but I enjoy a challenge, that's what makes this game fun! As for needing a good subrace to build a turner, I am purely offensive. I noticed a BUR subrace Half-Celestial build with only 60 ending charisma with gear, and the builder said he had no complaints on it. So I would like to think if I play it smart, I can do a really good job with it.
Will I upgrade subraces as I get them though? Of course, I would be crazy not to. Although, I will most likely level this to 60 before I do any upgrading of subraces, whether it be secret, UR or BUR. Like I said, I enjoy a challenge, and this build will most likely be a challenge to play. I will keep this build updated with gear at 40, 60, and demi (hopefully). Also will add a more defensive version for those that are scared to play one with such low constitution. That will probably net you one more epic as well, but I was told Miracle is really the only cleric epic that is absolutely necessary.
Please, don't try to talk me out of building this. I have my mind set and would like the support of the fellow players of such a friendly and helpful place! Thanks for reading and replying!
- lostrozzacavalli
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Post by jonuhey on May 21, 2011 2:28:28 GMT
Play it smart that any cleric can be very fun.
Turner is fun to play, but you only start turning things around lv 50-55, that even with a BUR subrace, as the turner level isnt tied to charisma, only to cleric level and domains.
If you want you can also get rapier wit feat and be a pseudo battle cleric for lowbies as it uses cha modifier for attacks. Not sure if it would fit in your build, but just saying
Challenges are always good to surpass ^^
Have fun!
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Post by Rain on May 21, 2011 3:54:02 GMT
As far as the class turner goes with open subby, this build seems ok to me as it's for sure that you won't play this in hell/abyss nowadays with the fact that everyone has the ability to get quick access to one UR/BUR subby or two. Open subby builds have been devaluated for a bit but they're still good to get you started on HG from the scratch.
Honestly, Destruction domain is quite flashy. The rule is you won't be able to turn any construct as long as there's something else alive that's within your turning capacity. In my experience, it's only useful in Toyshop as there're mainly constructs there. I'd definately drop "Empower spell+Great Fortitude+Domain:Destruction" for ESF:Transmutation. IOF is no doubt nowadays dominating as a #1cleric epic. I don't even need to explain since if you don't pick it I'm sure there'll be a lot more ppl to explain for ya. Since you have Max DC, ESF:Enchantment is actually also nice for turner for both the epic and a high dc rebuke that can insta kill lots of things you can't turn(Orthon, Murkfiend, Guecebu, dybbuk come to my mind). Though for open subby I'm afraid you can only fit in IOF. Also forget about your AC and drop tumble for Max concentration which is the most important skill for turner.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 17:18:16 GMT
Rain's advice is good.
Turning constructs isn't that great in Hells with a max DC turner (72 charisma + ego item). Use the extra feats to get IoF.
Forget AC and focus on soak - you have excellent Gate.
All pure, max DC turners suffer from poor saves and very poor ability checks (Str, Dex, Con). With an open subrace build you are even more vulnerable.
Typical turner play style is to rush into the spawn, turn to immobilize, restore (to remove hells penalties and max your DC), pray to debuff the stunned mobs saves further and then turn again to destroy them.
Mobs that are stunned from your first turn can disable you which will mean you don't get to the second turn.
You will need to position VERY carefully to avoid Erinyes, Advespa, Narzugon, Gelugons and of course Pitfiends and Malebranches.
Before you venture into Hell make sure that you have very solid resistances, high % immunities for survival - you will get hit a great deal. Refresh Gate after a couple of spawns or more if you got owned. Cover poison, fear and breach with gear based immunity items as you will get hit all the time and many critters have on hit effects. Getting feared on a large open hell map like Malad will mean a high risk of wipe in many parties.
Turners are fun! Very much the glass cannon but one who can't do the job standing back.
Turners scoff at AC over 100, laugh at arcane casters cowering at the back of the spawn and snicker at the tanks as they leeroy the spawn to stun it.
-silver (Aasimar turner made it Phleg before reincarnation to Fallen Angel before reincarnation to Half Celestial and enjoyed all the incarnations)
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Post by lostrozzacavalli on May 21, 2011 20:00:58 GMT
Are turners still a class people like to have around or did they get to badly nerfed to even try to build one?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 20:25:38 GMT
Turners are often more run specific than other classes.
They are still excellent for eliminating 'trash mobs' in Hell and crowd control for other creatures.
In the Abyss my experience has been limited but they can still contribute to a group but the disable checks and low saves can make runs a little rough.
In legendary level runs:
For Elysium a pure cleric turner is very limited. Similarly in Aboleths.
Toyshop, Locathah, Dulvoroth, Pit of Moliation, Hive, Desert and Dustbone are all good turner destinations.
Pyramid is good if you have Sun domain.
Uroboros, Myconids, Illithids and Ssithrak are all poor turner runs.
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Post by KnightErrant on May 21, 2011 20:30:44 GMT
The really top tier turners on the server are so powerful that nearly everything is stunned and just stands there on every spawn...turning the run into a "Turkey Shoot" which--I assume-- is really fun for the turner and the newer peeps without great gear.
Guessing 90-95% of the server people love having a great turner on the run as it speeds it up and they can watch TV or otherwise "slack" since almost nothing ever fights back...
As Silver pointed out tho...if you can't stun it all really fast your likely to get disabled and killed very fast...Like nearly all of HG's quasi classes, GEAR and knowledge of the mobs and their spawn points is the difference between being effective or just draining the other party members Rez Rods...
.02 KE.
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Post by Rain on May 22, 2011 3:55:00 GMT
If this is your first toon ever on HG, it doesn't really matter what class or what role it is. Just pick a class you like and go for the experience as HG is absolutely two or more times larger than any other existent or ever existent NWN server. Not exaggeration at all. That said, you have a lot more to learn first before you know what YOU want. Different people have different taste and experience. Some ppl having played here for 3 years yet still having no clue of some area or class is quite common. You'd be better off playing around first and seeking out which class you fit instead of waiting and asking for a class that fits you. Turner is good for some ppl yet crappy for some as well. But when you know and explore your role well, you can start making turner shine like no one else did, which was exactly how those nerfs came to mind in the first place. But that is another story.
However, the situation for current turner field is, you have to give up defense for offense and with the poor defense it's a bad idea to rush into mob without fully buffed or sometimes without immobilizing some dangerous mob first. Turner is pretty much area restricted so hell/abyss will be your real final stage so far. Elysium and Aboleth are endgame area as well but unless you have the spell foci backup to cast decent Rebuke/Undeath to death/Banishment(these spells count turner's cha modifier instead of wis for DC) you're just a dragged bot occasionally spamming some restore/heal on ppl.
There're lots of classes with promising potential, some being modified existent nwn classes while some being classes you've never seen before. Play your own way and always watch carefully how experienced ppl play. If you really wanna just fill a role in a party, at least learn the areas first before making that decision.
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Post by perpetual_n00b on May 24, 2011 16:07:08 GMT
I am thinking of adapting my Fallen Angel Turner to this build, would net one more epic, thinking IoF or conjuration for blade of barrier (just like evards from a mage, correct?) for dmg on bosses and monsters I can't turn. Any ideas?
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