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Post by jonuhey on Jul 6, 2009 13:38:58 GMT
"Useless" isnt the word for Blind fight, kleb. Its like saying a beaker is "useless" just because you can always buy heal pak at the shop.
Blind fight with max listen is pretty good if you can afford, and especially for leveling.
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Post by nataani on Jul 6, 2009 13:50:11 GMT
1) Very usefull since it stops you loosing AC against Invis creatures. Name one I might encounter at level 60 besides a dogai. If you run out of pearls you ask if someone has some, for the brief few seconds in between its not worth it. If your bard has no HMR he better reincarnate cuz hes not gonna get far in post hell areas or even nessus. Now, name more than two creatures in 60+ areas that inflict deafness. You just named one of two cases, the other being the boss fight in Elysium. So basically your saying that this feat is going to be used against three creatures in hells/post hells and in one or two other cases. I'd rather take toughness tyvm, pretty useless. This is beneath you Cata, I just lost alot of respect for you as a decent person to debate with. I aint even gonna touch this one.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 6, 2009 14:04:55 GMT
1) Very usefull since it stops you loosing AC against Invis creatures. Name one I might encounter at level 60 besides a dogai. Well if u go wandering around Ele plains looking for +16 Gems say hi to the Invisible Stalkers in the Elemental Plains for me If you run out of pearls you ask if someone has some, for the brief few seconds in between its not worth it. If your bard has no HMR he better reincarnate cuz hes not gonna get far in post hell areas or even nessus. Now, name more than two creatures in 60+ areas that inflict deafness. Baatorian Green Steel Golems, Para Baatorians and Elite Baatorians, not to mention sever other places not hells where u may take a level 60 toon. You just named one of two cases, the other being the boss fight in Elysium. I think there are others I could be wrong but this doesn't discount the fact that it's useful. So basically your saying that this feat is going to be used against three creatures in hells/post hells and in one or two other cases. I'd rather take toughness tyvm, pretty useless. No you are saying it's gunn be used against three creatures in Hells/Post Hells and in one or two other cases, I made no claims to where it was going to be used at all. This is beneath you Cata, I just lost alot of respect for you as a decent person to debate with. Actually I thought that was a rather truthful opinion. I personally think that anyone who believes that Blind Fight is useless in HG has some very severe lacks in his knowledge of the mod. I never once claimed that Blind Fight was a necessary feat, nor did I claim it would be useful EVERYWHERE, all I did was point out that your statement abvout it being useless was incorrect and if you still believe it is useless feel free not to take the feat on any of your builds. If earning your respect means I have to molly coddle your feelings whenever I make a post and curtail my own natural honesty when stating my opinios I'd rather not have your respect. I've better things to do with my time. Cata
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Post by nataani on Jul 6, 2009 14:14:04 GMT
Name one I might encounter at level 60 besides a dogai. Well if u go wandering around Ele plains looking for +16 Gems say hi to the Invisible Stalkers in the Elemental Plains for me So two creatures in the mod, yeah that makes it worth it. Thats just sad, couldnt come up with winds? And IM the one with a lack of knowledge of the mod. There arent. Maybe I should have said "It is of such marginal use in 99% of the mod that you would better spend your time taking something else that might get you benefits in more than a few select cases" but useless was easier. End game mate, end game. I dont play tanks, they are boring. And unless I had no other decent options whatsoever, no, I wouldnt take it. Its a matter of courtesy, note that until now I didnt jump down your throat for the utterly stupid, completely ignorant and shameful comment of not understanding why a mage needs GR. Its not constructive, takes the fun out of the debate, and makes me look an egohead, even if its the truth. Then again, judging by 90% of your posts you dont care if people think your an egohead. Edit. On second thoughts, egohead isnt the right word to use, petty is more apt.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 6, 2009 15:13:42 GMT
So two creatures in the mod, yeah that makes it worth it. Well there may be more but I really couldn't be bothered to g searching for their names and tbh does it really matter? You will note that they are from NEW areas to the mod. This tells me any new areas could possibly have simmilar things. If so as time goes by BF may just become even more useful. It may not but u never know. Thats just sad, couldnt come up with winds? And IM the one with a lack of knowledge of the mod. Sure I could but I saw no reason, and still don't, to prove my knowledge or lack of the mod to u or anyone else.My point was that Blind Fight is useful on a Tank, and you have as yet done very little to prove otherwise. All u have really done is said u would rather take toughness, fair enough but since this build is aimed at new players at least give them a reason as to why you would take toughness so that they can come to their own conclusions. There arent. Maybe I should have said "It is of such marginal use in 99% of the mod that you would better spend your time taking something else that might get you benefits in more than a few select cases" but useless was easier. Such as? Again I say this build is aimed at newer players, at least give examples of feats you would use that you think are better so that others choosing to build this may have some idea as to why and can therefore make up their own minds. What about it? This build is an Open Subrace, whilst perfectly capable of taking on the hardest parts of the mod and doing so succesfully most people would be looking for better subraces to upgrade and not necessarily looking at the end game with this build. I made this build more in mind of LL's than Hells altho it is certainly capable of surviving even in the deepest parts of Hells. I dont play tanks, they are boring. And unless I had no other decent options whatsoever, no, I wouldnt take it. And yet you are trying to tell me, who has numerous tank builds, and I assure you if played properly they aren't boring in the least, that I don't know what I am talking about Its a matter of courtesy, note that until now I didnt jump down your throat for the utterly stupid, completely ignorant and shameful comment of not understanding why a mage needs GR. Its not constructive, takes the fun out of the debate, and makes me look an egohead, even if its the truth. Then again, judging by 90% of your posts you dont care if people think your an egohead. Edit. On second thoughts, egohead isnt the right word to use, petty is more apt. Well despite the fact that a discussion of GR is totally off topic on a Tank build I'll just point out that I didn't say it wasn't useful, just not necessary That is neither shameful, stupid nor ignorant. Simply my opinion and a correct one at that. GR is NOT necessary on a Mage, extremely useful yes, necessary no. Would I recomend a Mage not take it no. Would I complain if they didn't, no, its their build and their choice. As for courtesy I always try to be courteous in all my dealing woth other people. And if my simply telling you that imo saying Blind fight is useless in HG shows a distinct lack of knowledge of the mod is discourteous enough to facilitate an attack like this I dread to think how you would react if some one actually did insult you. Congrats on the off the scale overreaction. Cata
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Post by Senaattori on Jul 13, 2009 10:55:51 GMT
Zeny STR version of this, anyone?
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 13, 2009 12:45:25 GMT
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Post by Yomi on Sept 6, 2009 19:40:41 GMT
Shouldn't this be in the open subrace build forum?
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Post by TJ on Sept 7, 2009 2:34:53 GMT
It wasnt before, so i just moved it accordingly.
TJ
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Post by Yomi on Sept 7, 2009 2:36:37 GMT
Yes. I should have mentioned I was asking Cata and/or Tyr.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Sept 7, 2009 3:24:04 GMT
I'm happy for it to go in the Open Subrace Build Forum if it meets the criteria. If it doesn't let me know what I need to change on the post and I'll try n sort it out Cata
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Post by redbeard on Jun 21, 2010 15:50:52 GMT
This build starts with 18 Dex and 14 Wis. The subrace adds 2 each. Then it adds 3 points in wis and 2 in dex pre-epic. This gives 22 Dex and 19 Wis at 20.
How about starting with 16 dex and 16 wis and adding 1 wis and 4 dex pre-epic? I think that still gives 22 dex and 19 wis at 20 and it allows an extra 2 points in Constitution (or strength or int if you prefer).
I think it would also be better to take Weapon Finesse at level 3 for about +4 AB over Weapon Focus Unarmed. This would be an advantage in leveling and would catch up at level 9 when Weapon Finesse is scheduled to be taken.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jun 21, 2010 17:10:56 GMT
Well you could do that but starting with 18 Dex and 14 Wis rather than 16/16 gives you +1 to AB and AC where as 16/16 keeps the AC but you loose the extra point of Dex.
Not a huge difference I admit but since at the lowest levels you aren't getting a lot of help AB wise from gloves you need all the help you can get.
Changing round Weap Finesse for Weapon focus Unarmed however is a good idea. As I mentioned the extra ab all helps, I'll change the build to reflect this.
Cata
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Post by arek on Jul 17, 2010 1:19:04 GMT
Cata, I always make my builds with L60 in mind. Sometimes even with 1x or 2x demi. For an open subrace build, I also strive to keep them reasonable to level, and might not go with certain builds that are difficult to level due to feat order. With that in mind, I would definitely start this with 16/16/12 dex/wis/con at creation, and take SS/LHS instead of LoH/LL. This drops your early AB/AC, but it allows you to reach 60 fort at 60 with a +14 CON item, which is kinda important if you're going to the Hells with this. :-)
--Arek
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 17, 2010 5:59:04 GMT
Since I just double Demi'd a Pariah with 39 Reflex I'd disagree with the saves comment and I know most people will agree with you, however, the whole point of this build is one that whilst being able to survive in the higher levels of the mod, is a build that anyone can make, and play well through the lower levels.
To me dropping early AC/AB doesn't make much sense on a build designed for some one with poor gear if any to play who is new to the server.
Cata
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