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Post by Shakua on Jan 12, 2012 12:07:55 GMT
New feat for Dragon focused tanks only (shifter or cc druid)
Feat has 3 tiers, one for each of the Legendary Form Focus Dragon
Taking this feat reduces your size back to previous state.
You continue to act your size, benefits and all even though you do not look like it or take up the space
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 20, 2012 19:51:32 GMT
This would mean a fair amount of work - likely not worth it for the gain. I'm also unsure of the value featwise in game terms, setting aside considerations of zots, though that could be remedied by making it a single feat, I suppose.
Funky
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Post by Shakua on Jan 20, 2012 20:17:59 GMT
There are very few players that would bother use a dragon tank and it seems mostly a size issue, they are very awkward to move around on maps, hall ways and around other players. Iv no idea how the coding works, but form focus 1 would seem to be the right size for a form 3 with the feat. Should be about the same as moving say a cloud giant or pariah around.
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Post by desocupado on Jan 26, 2012 13:01:30 GMT
Couldn't LFF Dragon transfer breath power to Wyrmlings (Wild Shape 1) and use it's charges instead?
A !opt shifterdragon would do the trick.
And a Druid version, empowering Elemental Shapes instead.
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Post by wollstonecraft on Jan 26, 2012 18:09:20 GMT
Could the size reduction not be included as a benefit for taking LFF 1-3 rather than have it as a seperate feat option?
I wonder how many players would take 3 feats just so others dont get annoyed.
-WSCraft
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Post by tokidoki on Jan 26, 2012 21:23:14 GMT
I'm not an expert on whoever changes into dragons, or on the NWN scripting process.
But i think (assumption) that even if you changed the model, your hitbox would still be the same and still cause just as much trouble. From experience with the Epic Dragon-Knight spell, where the Dragon was drastically reduced in size at level 41, but the hitbox remained massive.
So simply changing the model might not work. I would lump this together with Dragon-Knight in that sense. If you could find a way to make Dragon-Knight smaller (Use a different NPC as a base class maybe?) you could then use the Dragon-Knight as a base for the shifted dragon form and fix both problems.
I would offer to take a look at it, but i wouldn't know were, or how to start.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 26, 2012 21:52:13 GMT
Changing the model would work, though that isn't feasible until we're able to update HGE again, in any event, and the longstanding position on this is that the size is simply a part of the ability in question, be it shifter polymorph or summon. Dragons are big.
Funky
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Post by Shakua on Jan 27, 2012 1:36:54 GMT
theres no problem with the dragons being big. but nobody wants you in the party when you take up too much space. id be happy with some size balance that was not a detriment to a players mental health with all the " i cant target and etc .."
White dragon at full form focus 3 seems to be the "right" size for any of the sizes
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Post by uncanny on Jan 27, 2012 10:32:52 GMT
theres no problem with the dragons being big. but nobody wants you in the party when you take up too much space. id be happy with some size balance that was not a detriment to a players mental health with all the " i cant target and etc .." White dragon at full form focus 3 seems to be the "right" size for any of the sizes So it's more of a player-perceived problem than a game problem then isn't it? |
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Post by Shakua on Jan 27, 2012 12:49:09 GMT
theres no problem with the dragons being big. but nobody wants you in the party when you take up too much space. id be happy with some size balance that was not a detriment to a players mental health with all the " i cant target and etc .." White dragon at full form focus 3 seems to be the "right" size for any of the sizes So it's more of a player-perceived problem than a game problem then isn't it? no, the size form focus 3 dragon causes all kinds of issues between size of maps, hallways, moving through players, all the new huge summons and targeting issues. Theres a difference between being inconvient due to power and being inconvient to the whole party and game play. |
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Post by Shakua on Jan 27, 2012 13:04:40 GMT
no, the size form focus 3 dragon causes all kinds of issues between size of maps, hallways, moving through players, all the new huge summons and targeting issues. Theres a difference between being inconvient due to power and being inconvient to the whole party and game play. Right, but you don't really need to give up anything damaging to get a lot of benefits. Four feats total and you're a monster capable of rending mobs quite quickly. And no loss of Wisdom compared to UR race druid caster-heavy builds, so it's not like you are a one-trick pony. You could argue that the shift-unshift loses spell slots, but this merely means you approach an area as either Druid caster or Dragon. Shuffle kit one way and you're a UR-class Druid (which according to many is two subrace levels above what you REALLY need), shuffle another way and you're a very effective tank/breath-weapon-user. Or just use up spells then shift when trouble sniffs closer. From a shifter-only perspective perhaps, since the point of a shifter is using abilities/shapes to overcome mobs; but you're hardly required to use Dragon to deal with everything effectively. you should bother reading the topic, this has nothing to do with shifters |
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Post by uncanny on Jan 27, 2012 13:08:28 GMT
Right, but you don't really need to give up anything damaging to get a lot of benefits. Four feats total and you're a monster capable of rending mobs quite quickly. And no loss of Wisdom compared to UR race druid caster-heavy builds, so it's not like you are a one-trick pony. You could argue that the shift-unshift loses spell slots, but this merely means you approach an area as either Druid caster or Dragon. Shuffle kit one way and you're a UR-class Druid (which according to many is two subrace levels above what you REALLY need), shuffle another way and you're a very effective tank/breath-weapon-user. Or just use up spells then shift when trouble sniffs closer. From a shifter-only perspective perhaps, since the point of a shifter is using abilities/shapes to overcome mobs; but you're hardly required to use Dragon to deal with everything effectively. you should bother reading the topic, this has nothing to do with shifters Hmm seems you quoted me before the delete fired off. None-the-less, I stand by what I said - I just felt there was no point in continuing that line. However, you say nothing to do with shifters, may I quote your first line? New feat for Dragon focused tanks only (shifter or cc druid) When I raised shifter I was answering the second part of your own OP, and noting that perhaps you have a point when it comes to shifters since the point of shifter is to use different shapes; however as a Dragon-shape druid you would have maxed wisdom and are very able to make yourself a capable spellcaster to boot. |
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Post by Shakua on Jan 27, 2012 13:13:53 GMT
you should bother reading the topic, this has nothing to do with shifters Hmm seems you quoted me before the delete fired off. None-the-less, I stand by what I said - I just felt there was no point in continuing that line. However, you say nothing to do with shifters, may I quote your first line? New feat for Dragon focused tanks only (shifter or cc druid) When I raised shifter I was answering the second part of your own OP, and noting that perhaps you have a point when it comes to shifters since the point of shifter is to use different shapes; however as a Dragon-shape druid you would have maxed wisdom and are very able to make yourself a capable spellcaster to boot. I have a caster druid. Why would i build a dragon tank , that has tanking feats, has weapon focuses and tanking epics and then attempt to pretend im a caster druid? its a Dragon- Tank. Something that used to exist on higher ground and dont any more. |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 27, 2012 16:18:31 GMT
you should bother reading the topic, this has nothing to do with shifters In fairness, size-related complaints about dragon druid tanks, shifters, and dragon summons are very closely linked.  Funky |
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Post by Shakua on Jan 27, 2012 17:32:28 GMT
you could say that, but only dragon tanks are 3x the size of anything else.
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