|
Post by Raj on Mar 12, 2012 12:31:57 GMT
Geez, it's a bit OT but you can't rly gear a 1x that way, with two zendarfils, double kb shield active and no exotic imms. I think you overstimate the need for phisical immunity tbh, most of the time it's debilitating attacks and elemental/exotic aoe effects that kill you; definitely need to cover all 5 elements, some more, some less depending on layer but on a tank a all around defense is mandatory.
Actually, it can be considered a bit in topic as well, afterall on a bg/pally turner you have to cover against so many things ( direct attacks, aoe kb, aoe disables due to being in the front lines, mord/breach when needed ) that the turning is essential to stun things that could overwhelm you, but at the same time your feats/stats selection is so limited that you can't really act as a proper tank against those things you can't destroy ( or that get attacked by you or other party members and then wake up, ready to beat the malee turner in front of them ).
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Mar 12, 2012 12:56:16 GMT
Geez, it's a bit OT but you can't rly gear a 1x that way, with two zendarfils, double kb shield active and no exotic imms. I think you overstimate the need for phisical immunity tbh, most of the time it's debilitating attacks and elemental/exotic aoe effects that kill you; definitely need to cover all 5 elements, some more, some less depending on layer but on a tank a all around defense is mandatory. Actually, it can be considered a bit in topic as well, afterall on a bg/pally turner you have to cover against so many things ( direct attacks, aoe kb, aoe disables due to being in the front lines, mord/breach when needed ) that the turning is essential to stun things that could overwhelm you, but at the same time your feats/stats selection is so limited that you can't really act as a proper tank against those things you can't destroy ( or that get attacked by you or other party members and then wake up, ready to beat the malee turner in front of them ). I'd agree, but keep my position that a Full cha BG makes no sense, compared to a Paladin one. Blackguards don't scale as well on Cha as Paladins. A a paladin version gets +cha mod/2 physical immunity and twice that as positive, i.e. up to 35% positive and 17% Physical immunity with Aura of glory. And thanks to the +17 Shield AC with divine shield you can keep comparable ac with any tower shield with some physical immunity, like Solar Arc or Abyssal Retort, solving this ring issue and netting eveen more physical resistances (but not solving the gear selection). In fact this nets 2 less AC overall, maybe guird could fix this, I'm not 100% sure. Also there are several others shields usable, due the fact that divine shield fixes the AC bonus, like Mantelet of Repulsion and One Thousand Curses. I"d say an awesome combination would be Mantelet of Repulsion + Baator's Embrace (+% phys, good immunities and resistances) + Planewalker for better gear adjustment. This combo works very well, as it covers all resistances and immunities, and granting and absurd ammount of KB reduction. Add in a Mandate of Heaven with magic vestment spell from a cleric, and you've got a monster. Since, this kind of turner requires a cleric to be played anyway, rellying on that buff isn't so bad.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 2:42:19 GMT
Geez, it's a bit OT but you can't rly gear a 1x that way, with two zendarfils, double kb shield active and no exotic imms. I think you overstimate the need for phisical immunity tbh, most of the time it's debilitating attacks and elemental/exotic aoe effects that kill you; definitely need to cover all 5 elements, some more, some less depending on layer but on a tank a all around defense is mandatory. Actually, it can be considered a bit in topic as well, afterall on a bg/pally turner you have to cover against so many things ( direct attacks, aoe kb, aoe disables due to being in the front lines, mord/breach when needed ) that the turning is essential to stun things that could overwhelm you, but at the same time your feats/stats selection is so limited that you can't really act as a proper tank against those things you can't destroy ( or that get attacked by you or other party members and then wake up, ready to beat the malee turner in front of them ). Did you read this part of my last post: I'll start posting logs to illustrate what I am saying. This build and gear set is the most survivable toon I've played since my xdd with bg splash. Last night we did malb with some nasty randoms and more than once I was trapped alone in the midst of multiple PF's and Males. The toon did not die once. I think I am just going to post the build and the logs with it so far. It is far from perfect, but it tanks well and turns well. I am not sure why you have a hard time believing that
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 3:22:15 GMT
Here is a screeny with my most typical gear set up. It works very well. Any two elemental imms can be at 100%+ with any two exotic imms at near 75% and slashing not dipping lower than 80% (the others phys imms not lower than 50%). Saves at 92/87/96. Over rated or under rated, evasion can be a big help coupled with critical hit imm. This toon has no problem what so ever dealing with exactly the scenarios you mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Mar 13, 2012 3:31:02 GMT
That is a real eye-opener for me...
I wouldn't have thought you could survive as a tank in the "real game" with imms like that...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 4:02:21 GMT
That is a real eye-opener for me... I wouldn't have thought you could survive as a tank in the "real game" with imms like that... As THE tank of the party, no. As a tank that runs behind the toon that is spawning to spam tuns, yes, easily. It is not a druid-NB like race to run in and spam then run back out: I am normally more concerned with getting at least two turns off before casters have time to cast insta-kills. Again, evasion, crit immunity, and high saves help a lot. Note this toon is both breach and mord imm so any buffs do not usually come off and if they do, its not a huge problem. It pays to use some tactics also, hitting the first turn before the spawn arrives so by the time the first wave is even close the turn fires and it is stunned. You guys are making me want to use xfire to make some 'game-tape' lol.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 16:26:44 GMT
meh...the more I play this toon the more confident I am in using it as a tank. It is not 'teh best tank eva'....but 4/5 in tankish survival (which is the goal) absolutely. Getting gang...uh...jumped by pfs and males in malb, solo tanking all of the consorts + tia in the tia run this morning....ya there were some lvl 50 summons that disintegrated in dragon breath but....if I can get this kind of tanking out of it as a cc cleric I'll be happy.
I don't see why this is so shocking. Some conceal +130 ac, + saves in the high 80's and 90's, plus imms that, to me, are highish...evasion......my worst foe so far isn't pf's, males, (superior or not), minibosses, excruciarch inquisitors, even the horrible juggernaut like turn-muting orthon fists....no its %$#@ing corny task masters. Dunno why. Not an uber toon (like i said) but a LOT of fun to play.
|
|
|
Post by Raj on Mar 13, 2012 16:57:48 GMT
I am not sure why you have a hard time believing that You claim you have >100% phis imms, it comes out that it's only possible with a gear setup that is not realistic to keep on the whole time ( or ever ), then you post a more standard approach that still is lacking: being forced to use ego on a crappy ring doesn't help and I don't see how you can say two exotics are at near 75%, low ac, no crit imm if not from 1/rest belt, and a corruption with acid badly nerfed when that's the most relevant element to cover. It might work for you, in a full party setup and as long as buffs last, but nothing to brag on.
|
|
|
Post by jeanhelixü on Mar 13, 2012 17:22:51 GMT
I was on that phleg with you, as a staffmaster. Most of the time on encountering pit fiends and malebranches you were immediately kd, which causes mobs to usually ignore you. It is easy to tank when no mobs are attacking you.
Incidentally on that run, me: 105k damage 27 kills, melee turner: 16k damage 17 kills.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Mar 13, 2012 18:12:14 GMT
I did some Oinos with overdriver, and discussed a bit the build and etc. I've seen what rajah meant about the effect of TR 57 + domain, one losses the power to attempt to destroy many mobs by not going pure, or missing the smite in the pally/BG case, I'd like to add my two cents tough.
If someone else stun the mobs, you can try using the full turning power - tough this is unlekely and limited, it is still a possibility. With more CHA, the stun is harder to break than a cleric equivalent. One could drop a few feats/stats to grab OC DC Blooded LSA tumble, perhaps by discarding a few domains, this would allow better tank performance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 18:30:07 GMT
Jean, "that phleg" I have been on dozens of runs with that toon and it is rarely kd. PF str check at 44, and my toons str at 39, statistically I would not be "immediately kd'd", in fact, I would not be often kd'd at all, and dex at 31 the odds are at worst 50/50 for the male dex check, again not "immediately kd'd". Congratson the stats on that run, I am sure it makes you feel better about something else you lack in life. Incidentally.
Just did a tia where I had 107 kills....I am happy about that. My toon is getting better and I am expressing joy in it.
Sorry if I am taking a little joy in meeting a relatively mediocre goal (surviving as a tanking turner bg), but I really am not trying to get in a pissing contest. Lets not get into a stupid inferiority complex driven bash fest. You are anal and I am easily provoked so lets just be friends like we are when not everyone is watching.
Feel free to provide constructive criticism though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 18:49:37 GMT
I am not sure why you have a hard time believing that You claim you have >100% phis imms, it comes out that it's only possible with a gear setup that is not realistic to keep on the whole time ( or ever ), then you post a more standard approach that still is lacking: being forced to use ego on a crappy ring doesn't help and I don't see how you can say two exotics are at near 75%, low ac, no crit imm if not from 1/rest belt, and a corruption with acid badly nerfed when that's the most relevant element to cover. It might work for you, in a full party setup and as long as buffs last, but nothing to brag on. Everyone who plays at the highest levels on HG knows that forum braggery or putting others down or trying to make them look inferior or stupid is the realm of ultimate inferiority in HG, so the last thing I would be doing is bragging here. Just a fun discussion about a build I find fun and can make a solid contribution to the run. Is it going to three-man abyss with moe and curly and then brag later that core classes aren't nescessary etc? No. But it will be fun to play and to have in party. I know that toon and its abilities are vastly outclassed by many other toons. I know that, but it is accomplishing its intended purpose. I am not going to post 20 different gear configurations as screen shots to show that I can cover what needs covered when it needs covered, just what is standard. Crit imm is crucial but not as crucial when parry is 127, when that 127 doesn't cut it due to massive crits, the imm goes on. Run with this toon sometime and I think you'll see that.
|
|
|
Post by fallenwizard on Mar 13, 2012 18:49:34 GMT
Jean, "that phleg" I have been on dozens of runs with that toon and it is rarely kd. PF str check at 44, and my toons str at 39, statistically I would not be "immediately kd'd", in fact, I would not be often kd'd at all, and dex at 31 the odds are at worst 50/50 for the male dex check, again not "immediately kd'd". Congrats on the stats on that run, I am sure it makes you feel better about something else you lack in life. Incidentally. Just did a tia where I had 107 kills....I am happy about that. My toon is getting better and I am expressing joy in it. Sorry if I am taking a little joy in meeting a relatively mediocre goal (surviving as a tanking turner bg), but I really am not trying to get in a pissing contest. Lets not get into a stupid inferiority complex driven bash fest. You are anal and I am easily provoked so lets just be friends like we are when not everyone is watching. Feel free to provide constructive criticism though. Funny, so you punch under the belt and then say, "lets be friends" scroll up a bit and you see your self posting: "next i'll start posting logs" that is what Jean did - posted a log stats. Sadly it doesnt show how many incoming attacks you had and how much you stunned, since stunning is the "make or break"-deal with bg turners.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 4:33:05 GMT
Jean, "that phleg" I have been on dozens of runs with that toon and it is rarely kd. PF str check at 44, and my toons str at 39, statistically I would not be "immediately kd'd", in fact, I would not be often kd'd at all, and dex at 31 the odds are at worst 50/50 for the male dex check, again not "immediately kd'd". Congrats on the stats on that run, I am sure it makes you feel better about something else you lack in life. Incidentally. Just did a tia where I had 107 kills....I am happy about that. My toon is getting better and I am expressing joy in it. Sorry if I am taking a little joy in meeting a relatively mediocre goal (surviving as a tanking turner bg), but I really am not trying to get in a pissing contest. Lets not get into a stupid inferiority complex driven bash fest. You are anal and I am easily provoked so lets just be friends like we are when not everyone is watching. Feel free to provide constructive criticism though. Funny, so you punch under the belt and then say, "lets be friends" scroll up a bit and you see your self posting: "next i'll start posting logs" that is what Jean did - posted a log stats. Sadly it doesnt show how many incoming attacks you had and how much you stunned, since stunning is the "make or break"-deal with bg turners. Good points....I like jean, I run with jean, I trade with jean, and I appreciate jeans input because jean is a knowledgeable and competent player. But I don't deal with hostility well, even if it is unintentional. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef4aI-Woduc&feature=endscreen&NR=1 The log posted there were the worst run this toon had (out of many with the same that he had run with), and when someone or thing uses only those numbers which supports their point (selection bias), I take that as a measure of hostility. Like the news that you got folgers crystals instead of 'real' coffee. I've been appropriately humble here saying, "hey its not the best but look at the steps towards getting what I want out of it", and get a reaction like I am saying I am posting the best thing ever. I guess the whole territorial pee thing is irritating, and I am not a growler, I am biter. It is true that things like creatures stunned (or disarmed, or sr reduced, or stoned etc.) are not tracked on loggers, though they should be.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 5:30:09 GMT
ok logs:
Avernus:
KILLS: 1. Akssaar Sunathar 130, 2. Taza Turner 107, 3. Og The Daishadoky... 46, 4. ~Narzugon~ 32, 5. ..Morphling Warri... 19, 6. [Frag] A Brutalis... 15, 7. ~Balor~ 11, 8. Ania 6, 9. ~Malebranche~ 6, 10. ~Alkilith~ 4, 11. ~Cornugon~ 2, 12. ~Hamatula~ 2, 13. ~Excruciarch~ 1, 14. ~Crypt Thing~ 1, 15. ~Caligrosto~ 1
Nessus: (at x1, GR'd about half the time, spawns bard-cursed but no prayer etc.)
KILLS: 1. Zethia: 97, 2. Taza Turner: 81, 3. Mongo Loid: 63, 4. Milli EC Vanilli: 42, 5. Anarchyst's Great...: 36, 6. The Sound I.: 33, 7. Bogli's Archean A...: 28, 8. Symply Lost: 25, 9. Salek's Last LT: 23, 10. DamitaShadow: 15
|
|