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Post by desocupado on Mar 28, 2012 0:56:38 GMT
By no means I intend to post another shifter build, however I was discussing a build, and it seemed reasonable to work on the idea. This build has a different focus from my builds as it will ditch tanking prowess (as dps source) for a ridiculous amount of versatility. However I'll use heavy claws stat/feat distribution to make it work: Objectives:Extreme Versatility -> Wild shapes + Construct + Dragon + Undead - always something to do (even against bosses and no hit mobs) Maximum DC Emergency Tanking with dragon shapes (expertise may provide enough AC for heavy hitters) Sacrifices:No shape defense feats (i.e. less 6 AC potential) Bad reflex - (Well, dragon fix this pretty well) Low AB (not a big issue since this guy plays like an ability mage) -1 CL/PL (monk splash is needed to recover some defenses) Class distribution:Druid 5 Shifter 10 Druid 5 Shifter 19 Monk 1 Character creation:Base: Elf Subrace: Anarch Str 8 Dex 10 Con 10->14 (keep in mind it's -2 while elf) Wis 18->24 Int 16 Cha 8 (Level up points go into Wisdom)Saves (with +12 gear): Ref 7+3+2+6+35 = 53 + base dex modifer *** // One can grab legendary reflexes and fix this value Will 3+7+28+35 = 73 Fort 7+7+2+9+35 = 60 (59 while elf) Skills: (save enough points for monk skill dump at 40) Tumble 60 (dumb at monk 40 and max at 57 as cross class) Concentration 40 Animal empathy 63 Listen 63 Disciple 43 (dump monk 40) Parry 43 (dump at druid 20 monk 40) Hide 63 (may decrease this value for more parry) Pickpocket 1 Craft Armor - leftovers (40-ish) Feats:Anarch bonus feats:Martial weapon proficiency Armor skin Weapon Spec - Regular and Epic Alertness Pre-epic1 Lightning Reflexes 3 Armor Proficiency 6 Weapon Focus unarmed 9 Greater Weapon Focus 12 Great fortitude 15 Expertise (Improved Critical is pointless for this build) 18 Skill Focus Animal empathy (druid level) Epic = 7+6/bonus21 Dragon Shape 24 Undead Shape 27 Construct Shape (other levels) Great wisdom 1-10 Legendary = 741+ -> read spell penetration tome 42 LFF Undead 1 45 LFF Wildshape 1 48 LFF Wildshape 2 51 LFF Wildshape 3 54 LFF Undead 2 55+ Epode Construct 57 LFF Undead 3 60 LFF 1 Dragon Paragon= 663 PFF Construct 66 PFF Undead 69 PFF Wild Shape 72 LFF 2 Dragon 75 LFF 3 Dragon 78 PFF Dragon <----> Legendary Reflexes AB calculation (non-bur gear or artifacts) 36/bab +2/wf+gwf +20/magic bonus = total 58 (+shape str/dex mod) This is 2 less than the original heavy claws build, but this isn't a damage tank anyway. Regardless, Uro dragon claws may improve this if you need. |
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Post by simpetar on Mar 28, 2012 4:47:32 GMT
Notes about skills. Firstly, maxed Concentration is kind of overkill. Many forms increase your Con score, you should be fine with something between 20-30 hard points + gear. With your form choices, the only actual spells subject to interrupting will probably be Drider IGMS and Spectre BC; you can take the risk (Drider is unlimited and Spectre has big conceal).
Secondly, 2-3 more AC from Craft Armor pale in comparison with maxed and heavily dumped Hide (shifter skill). You get nice conceal from Mass Camo spells / items, and will appreciate it especially in Construct and Dragon shape. Note that most shifter tailored gear has Hide on it and while shifted, (full plate) armor and (tower) shield skill penalties go poof, so you can enjoy all those immunities, big Dex bonus (as draggy) and 120ish Hide.
Thirdly, going above 60 Tumble has little point, the AC is capped at 12 and 60 is plenty to sustain most checks. You get 9 more points to spend elsewhere.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 28, 2012 11:40:06 GMT
Notes about skills. Firstly, maxed Concentration is kind of overkill. Many forms increase your Con score, you should be fine with something between 20-30 hard points + gear. With your form choices, the only actual spells subject to interrupting will probably be Drider IGMS and Spectre BC; you can take the risk (Drider is unlimited and Spectre has big conceal). Full list: Drider, Prismatic Golem, Baelhorn, Spectre. I could put some extra points in parry instead indeed. However shapes usually don't increase increases concentration as it is based on constitution. Secondly, 2-3 more AC from Craft Armor pale in comparison with maxed and heavily dumped Hide (shifter skill). You get nice conceal from Mass Camo spells / items, and will appreciate it especially in Construct and Dragon shape. Note that most shifter tailored gear has Hide on it and while shifted, (full plate) armor and (tower) shield skill penalties go poof, so you can enjoy all those immunities, big Dex bonus (as draggy) and 120ish Hide. I'm not the bigest fan of hide, but I agree, considering the lack of AC feats, that this choice will provide more reliable defense. The camouflage ring from PoM is specially helpful on this regard. Good suggestion. Thirdly, going above 60 Tumble has little point, the AC is capped at 12 and 60 is plenty to sustain most checks. You get 9 more points to spend elsewhere. I don't even remember why I maxed it back then. Very well i'll move the skills arond a bit. Thank for the help. |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Mar 28, 2012 12:17:45 GMT
That is all fine and dandy when you are shifted but what happens when u have to unshift in the middle of combat?
Those few seconds in the midst of battle unshifted can kill you quicker than anything, don't set your skills just for shifter forms, you need to consider your unshifted defense somewhat too.
Cata
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Post by archmage on Mar 28, 2012 12:26:20 GMT
Doesn't this sound familiar.....
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Post by desocupado on Mar 28, 2012 12:30:15 GMT
That is all fine and dandy when you are shifted but what happens when u have to unshift in the middle of combat? Those few seconds in the midst of battle unshifted can kill you quicker than anything, don't set your skills just for shifter forms, you need to consider your unshifted defense somewhat too. Cata The ac is pretty decent unshifted. The original "heavy claws" stands on upper 120's (asmo armor helps even more). The reflex tough, being pretty bad could mean death indeed... One option is dropping a PFF for Legendary reflexes, or really playing like a caster. I'm also worried that the lack of EWF hurts touch attacks. Doesn't this sound familiar..... Cata's shifter dying?  |
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Post by archmage on Mar 28, 2012 12:32:24 GMT
That is all fine and dandy when you are shifted but what happens when u have to unshift in the middle of combat? Those few seconds in the midst of battle unshifted can kill you quicker than anything, don't set your skills just for shifter forms, you need to consider your unshifted defense somewhat too. Cata The ac is pretty decent unshifted. The original "heavy claws" stands on upper 120's (asmo armor helps even more). The reflex tough, being pretty bad could mean death indeed... One option is dropping a PFF for Legendary reflexes, or really playing like a caster. I'm also worried that the lack of EWF hurts touch attacks. Doesn't this sound familiar..... Cata's shifter dying? That too.  |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Mar 28, 2012 13:23:18 GMT
I'll remember to keep my shifters out of your parties since they are such a burden to ya'll  And doesn't what sound familiar? Cata |
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Post by desocupado on Mar 28, 2012 13:57:38 GMT
I'll remember to keep my shifters out of your parties since they are such a burden to ya'll And doesn't what sound familiar? Cata We are just messing with ya (archmage started it) But talking serious, you pointed a good point with the low reflex there cata, the question is: Drop which PFF? Dragon perhaps? (I hate dropping DC) |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Mar 28, 2012 14:17:18 GMT
To be honest it's going to depend on your personal play style, I can live with the lower saves so to me it's not a big deal, however most others can't and like to have their saves over 60 where ever possible.
I'd probably drop PFF Dragon if I were gunna drop any. At least with the current end game runs I don't see that having a huge impact as the others, what new areas will bring who can say.
Most of your forms you will use regularly are ranged, Banshee Wail, Gaze Attacks, Beholder Ray, Spikes, Rocks, Poison Breathe, etc so you probably wont be in the middle of combat for most of the time anyway, unless you are using Spectre or one of the tanks forms.
Other than that the only time you will really need to be amongst the mobs unshifted is if you are rezzing people and if you have to rez the party will be in a pretty bad way anyway so you will want to GS first if you can. But then you can't always control where the mobs will go, and randoms can spawn anywhere.
I don't think unshifted defense is something you need to go all out on, I just think it is something to be aware of so you know the build strengths and weaknesses, it certainly shouldn't be forgotten about completely.
If you decide you want the saves another option, which I did with my construct/undead shifter was to drop heavy armour, I wear medium on mine and use the Medium Ely Blind Immune Armour, awesome armour for shifters since gaze attacks don't work when shifted, yea little less ac and phys I guess but the build can still take a hit and keep on going. I don't see it as that big a sacrifice really. Again an unpopular choice I am sure but it works for me.
Cata
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Post by desocupado on Mar 28, 2012 15:06:13 GMT
To be honest it's going to depend on your personal play style, I can live with the lower saves so to me it's not a big deal, however most others can't and like to have their saves over 60 where ever possible. I'd probably drop PFF Dragon if I were gunna drop any. At least with the current end game runs I don't see that having a huge impact as the others, what new areas will bring who can say. Most of your forms you will use regularly are ranged, Banshee Wail, Gaze Attacks, Beholder Ray, Spikes, Rocks, Poison Breathe, etc so you probably wont be in the middle of combat for most of the time anyway, unless you are using Spectre or one of the tanks forms. Other than that the only time you will really need to be amongst the mobs unshifted is if you are rezzing people and if you have to rez the party will be in a pretty bad way anyway so you will want to GS first if you can. But then you can't always control where the mobs will go, and randoms can spawn anywhere. I don't think unshifted defense is something you need to go all out on, I just think it is something to be aware of so you know the build strengths and weaknesses, it certainly shouldn't be forgotten about completely. If you decide you want the saves another option, which I did with my construct/undead shifter was to drop heavy armour, I wear medium on mine and use the Medium Ely Blind Immune Armour, awesome armour for shifters since gaze attacks don't work when shifted, yea little less ac and phys I guess but the build can still take a hit and keep on going. I don't see it as that big a sacrifice really. Again an unpopular choice I am sure but it works for me. Cata I like that Blind immune Elysium armor as well, but as for now I'm sticking to asmo one, due the wis+16. Tough i use the PoM blind immunity helm when blindness issue gets really ugly (like in Elysium). The reflex issue also affects several shapes, from both construct and undead, due their low dex score. Guess ditching PFF dragon might be the way to go. |
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