Zenythri Threader

[desocupado]

Revison - (More 4 points of Wisdom and LSA: Discipline) - I've taken the continuous usage of the following items:

• Saves Artifact
  
• IC: Sickle augmenter
  
• ESF:Discipline Gear
  

Objectives:
Good DC with lifethreading (DC 56-61)
Reasonable stats for checks (base 18 Str/Dex translates into 30-48 for checks later with paraogn feats and Asmodeus belt)
Reasonable melee prowess (good AB with intuitive attack and decent listen due wisdom and 5 attacks)


Race: human subrace: Zenythri
Stat (subrace modfier)
Str 14+4
Dex 14+4
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 16+4 (+20/level +10/feats)
Cha 8

Progression: Cleric 16 WM 4 -> Cleric 4 WM 15 -> Cleric 4 WM 1

Feats: 7+7+7 +1/human +3/wm = 25 // Level 60

Weapon feats 5: WF - EWF - LWF - EP - IntuitiveAtack --- (You will need IC from items)
WM req 4: Dodge Mobility Spring Expertise Whirilwind (Zenythri gets improved whirlwind for free)
Defense 1: AS
Wisdom 10: Great Wis X
Skills 4: Bull headed* Blooded* LSA:Discipline LSA:Tumble
Saves 1: Epic Fortitude (+4)

Possible paragon feats:
-Paragon Anchoring - Strength+4 Checks (Given light armor, this one is priority)
-Paragon Balance - Dexterity+4 checks
-Paragon of stability - Reroll Failed Stat checks with -6 (handy inside UUU for superiors)
-Paragon WF sickle
--Openx2 Levitation & Water breathing or Environmental Adaptivity I - II



Saves (at 60, saves arty and +12):
F 35 +10+1 +6 +3 +4 = 59
R 35 +5+5 +10 +3 = 58
W 35 +10+1 +26 = 72

(At 60 with +12)
AB: 38/bab +5/wm +20/mag +26/wis +7/feat = 96 (extra +2/gear+16 +5/Paragon +2/Demi +2/PWF)
AC: About 128-140 (Depends On armor Type, Expertise, Guird)

Skills =5 (base 2 +2/int +1/human):
--Tumble 60
-Listen 43 (Dump at Weapon master level 40)
--Discipline 63
-Concentration 20 (Might use a points from Paragon levels)
--Intimidate 4 (8)
-Parry 58
--Heal 63
Paragon skill points (Concentration+25 Discipline +15 Heal+10 Parry+10)


Notable Gear:
Threads of Life Elysium Light armor - Grants Wis mod % chance of not spending Spell on threading. Also has some Physical Resistances
Corruption of the Spirit Boots from Gapping Maw - Has Cleric slots and ESF: Discipline, a must have when under heavy layer penalty
The Serpent's Coil Asmodeus Belt - +4 to Str/Dex/Con checks and good Exotic Resistances

[desocupado]

Just bumping (if anyone have experience on similar builds or such low wisdom on threader) please enlighten me. DC 54 didn't seem much worse than some Caster's spells (tough Paragon spell focus changed this equation)

I've found that Zenythri Improved whirlwind serves as WM requirement, netting a free feat.
This makes me tempted to grab Dauntless + Legendary valor (+6 Reflex Fortitude) if i can drop a feat, tough I'll be sticking to LSA Disciple for now to help against slagging.

And, here some important note when building:
WM bonus feats (3): AS EP EWF
At cleric 20 (level 30) max Heal skill to qualify for LT
At 31-40, as weapon master, max disciple and listen

[louisvilleslugger]

I haven't played a WIS focused threader. My threader is DEX (upper 50's) with some STR (mid 30's) using salamander race. It does very mediocre damage output and does terrible in particular areas (kickback monsters or tears for example).

You can't thread while disabled, so you may have a hard time if you're WIS focused.

Hope you try it and report on your findings.

PS.
I haven't played it since the spell slot change, but I had a problem w/ running out of higher lvl (higher damage) slots quickly, and I imagine it's only worse now.

[desocupado]

I played a Fallen Angel full wisdom threader. (but I didn't have intuitive attack back then. levels 40-60, and hell up to phleg)
It was a quite nice experience, but only at 60 I felt I had enough wisdom to to make enemies fail at the save on legendary areas. But since i didn't have a logger this feeling might be wrong.
Of course, I didn't consider the need for curse/prayers and other save debuffs back then, since I was quite newbie. But, just like an Assassin, threader DC scale very slowly, so the truth it might been bad at lower levels indeed. (but i soloed dachy several times with him)


Well I'm trying Disciple 43+10+11 + 25-50(skill bonus) = 89-114, hope this is enough for hells (with resto it might be)

On the bright side, I feel that my AB is good enough to try to use Expertise for AC with this build. I'll finish my reincarnation tomorrow I guess.

[chainlink]

Apr 4, 2012 18:03:17 GMT louisvilleslugger said:

I haven't played a WIS focused threader. My threader is DEX (upper 50's) with some STR (mid 30's) using salamander race. It does very mediocre damage output and does terrible in particular areas (kickback monsters or tears for example).

You can't thread while disabled, so you may have a hard time if you're WIS focused.

Hope you try it and report on your findings.

PS.
I haven't played it since the spell slot change, but I had a problem w/ running out of higher lvl (higher damage) slots quickly, and I imagine it's only worse now.

Easy solution to make the time for threading per spell increased across the board (doubled?).
More complicated solution an increased threading time per spell but scaling down from level 9 to level 1 spells as more lower level spells were introduced on gear.
I can't say I can remember the last LL run I saw a Threader on and the spell slot change certainly won't have helped the situation.

[desocupado]

The damage is a matter of DC. Damage-wise threading is comparable to using earthquake every round (tough with different damage types). Since I hope to make enemies fail at their fortitude save, it will add some nice damage.

A regular Wisdom Cleric at 60 (Bur subrace without arty) has Wisdom 66(+12), hence DC = 10+8+28+8= 54 with Eq. That's the same value of my threading DC with similar gear (+12 at 60, no artifact).
Of course a cleric has usable debuffs for saving throws and will probably grab PSF and Wisdom Artifact into paragon levels. But this 54 might be usable, I'll let people how it goes.

[desocupado]

I was talking with lemon he told some choices he made on his similar built "Near-Uni wisdom threader":
-Trading ESF+LSF Disciple for Bullheaded+LSA:Disciple (and putting 20 more skill points)
-Drop all save feats for great wisdom+4 (reaching Great Wisdom+10) and Using Saves artifact
-Trading Improved Critical for Epic Fortitude (since fortitude is more crucial than reflex) and IC can be obtained from items


I must say that his build is a superior threader as it has much better DC (+2) and bigger Disciple rank potential.
He also mentioned that expertise is a must use combat mode, and improved expertise might be worth a paragon feat as well. I must agree as I have used it extensively on my old threader.

[Yojimbo]

What are your final DEX and STR? would it be better to focus more on 1, Id go with DEX personally, so start with 16 maybe in 1 and 10-12 in the other maybe boost CON if you can.

[desocupado]

Dex/Str 18 + 4/demi +2/para +16/gear = 40
One can throw Asmo belt for better checks. Also i've added Paragon feats.. Str/Dex 44-48 for checks

[Yojimbo]

if you went to Abyss my understanding is that could be problematic as there are DC 60 checks but since you would only gain 2-4 in 1 I can see how that might make it less appealing an option. The only other big reason I can think, and why I would bump DEX, is the Ely light armor to maximize AC in that armor with a small shield you need 28 base DEX IIRC.

[desocupado]

Well, right now, I'm using the not DC optimized build (without lemon's recommendations but I have a save artifact and +14 gear) at 60. My saves are: (the adjusted build with less save is in the parentheses)

Fortitude 64 (-3)
Reflex 67 (-9)
Will 74 (+2)

With demi, +16 and paragon levels I could get +3/4 on all saves (the asmo belt doesn't have Wisdom +16 bonus, but has such nice bonuses that I probably won't consider another option).

Looking at these numbers...
-I think that discarding 2 Great wisdom feats (for +8 total in the optimized build) and grabbing Fortitude 2+7 and Reflex +4. This might be the most balanced choice for a tank-like character.

Apr 6, 2012 2:39:01 GMT Yojimbo said:

if you went to Abyss my understanding is that could be problematic as there are DC 60 checks but since you would only gain 2-4 in 1 I can see how that might make it less appealing an option. The only other big reason I can think, and why I would bump DEX, is the Ely light armor to maximize AC in that armor with a small shield you need 28 base DEX IIRC.

Well with UUU, the maximum Stat check would be 48+10 = 58 for both. (base 14+4 in both is the cheapest investment for stat checks, of course I could put 4 points from Str in Con, it's a reasonable idea, but I might need to check all stat checks first). Paragon of Stability might make this even more attractive.
Yep, he's a Light armor+Shield user after demi.

[desocupado]

Bump - I've adjusted the build with my reincarnation plan after i get GM tag for Corruption of the Spirit