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Post by eternal on Jun 21, 2012 11:20:45 GMT
I'm building a melee shifter, using humanoid and undead forms. I have a couple of questions though.
Which legendary feats should I take? And should I focus in humanoid forms or undead forms first, this will not be a DC dependent build, so I'm not worried about abilities at all.
Should I go:
Legendary form focus Humanoid 1-3 Legendary form focus Undead 1-2 LSA Tumble Legendary weapon focus Unarmed
OR
Legendary form focus Undead 1-3 Legendary form focus Humanoid 1-2 LSA Tumble Legendary weapon focus Unarmed
I have noticed that Risen lord has a higher ab than the melee humanoid forms, so I'm leaning towards taking all 3 humanoid form focuses, but Risen lord also has a much higher damage potential.
Any thoughts?
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Post by tomaan on Jun 21, 2012 13:06:42 GMT
I have a Ranger CC melee shifter with undead and humanoid. I didn't take LWF: Unarmed until level 63 or so and really didn't miss the AB (was still at 100+ for most forms).
Risen Lord is your best damage form; Lizrdfolk and Drow will be the most stable forms. If you have Shifter CC, you'll get decent damage out of your Kobold traps.
Just my $.02
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Post by desocupado on Jun 21, 2012 15:01:35 GMT
Well, Risen lord needs more AC than AB (expertise helps him). Since Humanoid shapes have low AB, I'd stick with Humanoid 3 + LWF (plus: Lizardfolk vulnerability infliction improves with Feats)
Did you include all AC feats? Unless you intend to disarm/kd with Risen Lord, do you need so much AB?
I've posted a Shifter-CC build with both undead, humanoid and full DC (gradually).
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Post by eternal on Jun 21, 2012 15:21:50 GMT
Without taking LWF my AB will be around mid to low 90's, as this won't be a pure build, I'll be splashing 5 levels of an off class (not ranger). So I kind of need LWF, I just need to know if humanoid or undead will be better until I can get to level 63, then it won't matter.
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Post by eternal on Jun 21, 2012 15:25:46 GMT
Well, Risen lord needs more AC than AB (expertise helps him). Since Humanoid shapes have low AB, I'd stick with Humanoid 3 + LWF (plus: Lizardfolk vulnerability infliction improves with Feats) Did you include all AC feats? Unless you intend to disarm/kd with Risen Lord, do you need so much AB? I've posted a Shifter-CC build with both undead, humanoid and full DC (gradually). I'm not going for DC, wisdom will stop at 17, and only be there for some druid buffs. I'm going Druid CC for now, as this is a reinc, but that may change in the future if there is a good enough reason for shifter CC when DC's aren't a concern.
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Post by eternal on Jun 21, 2012 15:27:08 GMT
Since Humanoid shapes have low AB, I'd stick with Humanoid 3 + LWF (plus: Lizardfolk vulnerability infliction improves with Feats) Thanks, I'll probably stick with that then.
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Post by desocupado on Jun 21, 2012 15:39:51 GMT
By the way, Sahuagin also bears the +50% two handed damage, since he wields a trident with both hands.
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Post by eternal on Jun 21, 2012 15:55:14 GMT
By the way, Sahuagin also bears the +50% two handed damage, since he wields a trident with both hands. Oh yeah, I forgot about that, I need to check that out. Is there any reason to go for Undead shape then, since DC will not be present at all?
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Post by elnar shadowfox on Jun 21, 2012 16:08:13 GMT
I'm not going for DC, wisdom will stop at 17, and only be there for some druid buffs. I think more than DC scales with Wisdom. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that shifted Dex and Str scale with Wis modifier. Also the Risen Lord slay living and Drow mortal strike use a DC that includes Wis modifier. I can imagine not caring about those but I can't imagine why not if either is a main form :-) Besides, what else would you raise? Can't be Str or Dex - those have no effect on shifted form. If Wis does increase Str and Dex, then it also increases shifted AB and AC... That leaves CON for HP, INT for skills or CHA for AE. I dunno... I've used Stargazer to get more skill points than I knew what to do with, even for a loot shifter, but I admit it was fun Anyway, there are a lot of great threads from better builders than me. Sadly, not all in one place. I think the Ability Mage thread is the closest to an overall build-guide but a number of the new melee-focused shifter builds go more into non-casting shifters. And the wiki page seems solid. Elnar
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Post by eternal on Jun 21, 2012 16:24:55 GMT
I'm not going for DC, wisdom will stop at 17, and only be there for some druid buffs. I think more than DC scales with Wisdom. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that shifted Dex and Str scale with Wis modifier. Also the Risen Lord slay living and Drow mortal strike use a DC that includes Wis modifier. I can imagine not caring about those but I can't imagine why not if either is a main form :-) Besides, what else would you raise? Can't be Str or Dex - those have no effect on shifted form. If Wis does increase Str and Dex, then it also increases shifted AB and AC... That leaves CON for HP, INT for skills or CHA for AE. I dunno... I've used Stargazer to get more skill points than I knew what to do with, even for a loot shifter, but I admit it was fun Anyway, there are a lot of great threads from better builders than me. Sadly, not all in one place. I think the Ability Mage thread is the closest to an overall build-guide but a number of the new melee-focused shifter builds go more into non-casting shifters. And the wiki page seems solid. Elnar Well, I haven't seen my idea posted yet, so I'm going to build it first, try it out and then post it. I'm going for damage over abilities, and the Risen Lord's x4 crits are hard to pass up, I think I'll keep undead isntead of relying on sahuagin and its x2 crits. Plus Risen Lord has a +3 ab advantage over Sahuagin. I'm keeping humanoid for the many different melee forms and things such as ranged damage and the Lizardfolks infliction. I think that I'll stick with LFF humanoid x3 and undead x2, and pick up undead #3 in paragon levels.
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Post by elnar shadowfox on Jun 21, 2012 18:27:11 GMT
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Post by tomaan on Jun 21, 2012 19:02:53 GMT
To confirm: Wisdom does not impact stat increases. It only impacts non-spell ability DCs I tested it while discussing the above thread. In that case, I'd probably go with humanoid, simply because you get more variety in your form choices. I'd also recommend putting points into Wisdom if you can spare them -- the insta kill on your Risen Lord is nice to have and it will also help improve the damage output on your kobold traps.
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Post by desocupado on Jun 21, 2012 20:17:26 GMT
Well, I tried to make a build without wisdom once Iron Chimera - Rg22/Dr5/Sh13 but I've postponed the project when I got a rare subrace for the toon I was supposed to reincarnate. I really recommend testing the AB and AC of your shapes at level 60 at the test chamber, if I'm not mistaken the PL (Polymorph level) 55 against PL59/60 is a huge difference (like 5-10 to both AC and AB)
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Post by jcp on Jul 14, 2012 21:17:55 GMT
Why undead instead of construct?
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jul 14, 2012 23:00:48 GMT
Probably cause as the title says it is designed to be a meelee shifter and Undead offers much better forms for meelee
Cata
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