|
Post by desocupado on Oct 20, 2012 15:57:21 GMT
Update. Got demi on my cleric. Given my extra AC with tumble 60, I'll just wear the Styxwalkers full time, for even more spell slots, stats and amni-immunity.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Dec 18, 2012 22:29:38 GMT
Well, I was looking at the vestiges, the following adjustment seemed good to me: (any criticism is welcome) --High level (78+) reincarnation plan--- - Loses: Greater Ruin and LSF/PSF Enchant
- Gains: ESF Abj, ability to wear heavy armor and Craft Armor Skill
---Feat choices (GSF: Div for free due Drow Noble) // Changes are underlined--Pre-epic: Dauntless (R/F +1) SF Evocation GSF Evocation SF Necromancy GSF Necromancy SF Enchantment GSF Enchantment --Epic (7+6) ESF Divination ESF Enchantment ESF Evocation ESF Necromancy Great Wisdom 1-9 --Legendary (7) ***Read spell pen Tome Leg Spell Pen LSF Necromancy LSF Evocation Extend Spell Legendary Valor Great Wisdom X SF Abj--Paragon (6) Paragon Spell Penetration PSF Necromancy GSF Abj ESF AbjPSK Necromancy PSF Evoc ---Skills (2 +4/int +1/paragon) Disciple 43+20*3 (Helps a lot in abyss and some other areas) Tumble 43+ (17*3) Heal 54 Parry 63 Concentration 63 CA 60 // from SpellcraftNew AC 10 - base 17 - natural (Bur amulet) 8+20 - armor modifer (Mandate of Heaven +Magic vestment + Guird) 3 - dex modifier (Heavy armor + Tower shield) 20 - deflection (Asmodeus Mord/Breach Ring) 20 - dodge + haste 12 - tumble (maxed with able learner) 3+20 - shield modifier Tower Shield +Magic vestment + Guird) 2 Cratf Armor Total: 135 Helm: Gaze into the Abyss- amnesia immunity and slots Boots: Corruption of the Spirit - Cleric Slots + ESF: Discipline Armor: Mandate of Heaven - High Physical and Divine immunity Ring: Crest of Vile Darkness - Asmodeus Ring with mord, breach and Exotic immunity
|
|
|
Post by Raj on Dec 18, 2012 22:36:21 GMT
you forgot sf: abj, anyway it's a shame to take a 5th focus with paragon feats; drop save feats.
you're missing psf div too, and that's a big hit to your soak; that's only one step before psk div that is game breaking in some boss fights (like, princes w/o bards, hint hint).
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Dec 18, 2012 22:44:45 GMT
you forgot sf: abj, anyway it's a shame to take a 5th focus with paragon feats; drop save feats. you're missing psf div too, and that's a big hit to your soak; that's only one step before psk div that is game breaking in some boss fights (like, princes w/o bards, hint hint). That gives me 2 problems: ---Saves (with +12 stats at 60) Fortitude: 54 (63 - with +16, double demi and level 80) Reflex: 48 (57 - as above) Will: 75 (84 - as above) 2nd, I'm still 1 feat short for PSK Div (Well I could Drop PSF Evocation for it - "solved") -------------------------------------------- If I drop 2 Wisdom, I could keep my old saves feats (+6 Fort/Reflex) Well the DC loss isn't that bad as I have battletide for -5 (CL 60).
|
|
|
Post by buddhamind on Dec 18, 2012 23:53:13 GMT
I agree to drop the saves feats. Clerics don't need them-- just wear amnesia immunity and you're good to go.
PSF: Evo is way overkill. Also I wouldn't drop Greater Ruin.
I would go:
Abjuration - ESF Enchantment - ESF Evocation - ESF Necromancy - PSF + PSK Divination - PSF + PSK
Then drop both saves feats, move Extend spell to level 1, and pick up Greater Ruin.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Dec 19, 2012 0:52:52 GMT
I agree to drop the saves feats. Clerics don't need them-- just wear amnesia immunity and you're good to go. PSF: Evo is way overkill. Also I wouldn't drop Greater Ruin. I would go: Abjuration - ESF Enchantment - ESF Evocation - ESF Necromancy - PSF + PSK Divination - PSF + PSK Then drop both saves feats, move Extend spell to level 1, and pick up Greater Ruin. Well, I don't really have the skill points to spare on Spell Craft (Would have to reduce either CA or Heal), so I'll try to do without it (also because i really need the extra feat). Reflex really needs at least a small boost, otherwise I'll fail too often (I need to be too close to enemies for battletide). -------------------------------------------- -Pre-epic: Extend SpellSF Evocation GSF Evocation SF Necromancy GSF Necromancy SF Enchantment GSF Enchantment --Epic (7+6) ESF Divination ESF Enchantment ESF Evocation ESF Necromancy SF Abj GSF Abj ESF Abj Great Wisdom 1-6--Legendary (7) ***Read spell pen Tome Leg Spell Pen LSF Necromancy LSF Divination Epic Reflexes Great Wisdom 7-9--Paragon (6) Paragon Spell Penetration PSF Necromancy PSK Nec PSF Div PSK Div Great Wisdom X---Saves (with +12 stats at 60) Fortitude: 54 (63 - with +16, double demi and level 80) Reflex: 52 (61 - as above) Will: 75 (84 - as above)
|
|
|
Post by Raj on Dec 19, 2012 14:17:33 GMT
Greater ruin is THE noob feat, expecially for clerics who can istakill everything istakillable by ruin (exceptions regular aboleths, but in abo there're too many to ruin and you have shifters on that duty, in abyss they have no mantles and are mage fodder); while it was a option on some builds before PL, now it's not worth a paragon feat (exception palemasters who have abundancy of feats in PL).
Reflex is not that important, with the exception of stygia webs (base dc 55, under gr you have no issue at all), there're no common debilitating checks. You can soak the reflex-based dmg spells and abilities with gate, avoid abo1 webs with hive boots (but the check isn't that high either) and overall ignore save feats.
|
|
|
Post by buddhamind on Dec 19, 2012 16:56:14 GMT
Yeah, and who wants to be called a noob for having an incredibly versatile instakilling tool at the cost of only one feat?
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Dec 19, 2012 17:00:29 GMT
Yeah, and who wants to be called a noob for having an incredibly versatile instakilling tool at the cost of only one feat? Actually it costs 2 int (you need Spellcraft rank 50 to make it worthy). If I were to drop Reflex+4 and Heal 50, it would be my top choice. I believe I'm satisfied with the build now. Thanks for the help buddhamind and TheRajah.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Dec 19, 2012 18:56:00 GMT
I got called a noob for NOT having ruin Never regretted it once. Only times ever came close to regretting it was soloing with no cleric to insta things I couldn't, or with certain randoms that leave me wishing for a 1-action killshot (that half the time they make the save anyway, even twice in a row ). Then again my number 1 argument against Ruin is that it should NOT be relied on or depended on for randoms. I did regret that logic once but was massing Rift cheesily so it wouldn't apply to a real situation. Everyone loves ruin and it is fun and good but meh. Have to agree with what raj said.
|
|
|
Post by Raj on Dec 19, 2012 21:15:25 GMT
If you know how to play a cleric you shall never use ruin, period. Name me a monster you often use ruin against and I'll call you a noob.
On other casters it can cover some monsters your spells can't kill in reasonable time, but with PL that lone feat and two stats points spent on ruin mean you're not getting a +2 dc in a useful school or you give up a paragon spell.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Dec 20, 2012 0:03:03 GMT
Well, ruin has 3 nice perks: 1 - Longer range than most cleric spells (useful when you need to snipe something like an Archer) 2 - High DC (handy if you can't get near enough for a Prayer+Battletide) 3 - Ignores SR (Killing a boring target like Prismatic Golem comes to mind)
That being said, good coordination and team-play make it superfluous.
|
|
|
Post by Vichya on Dec 21, 2012 9:32:25 GMT
If you know how to play a cleric you shall never use ruin, period. Name me a monster you often use ruin against and I'll call you a noob. There are some mobs I like to use ruin against: Dybbuks, Guecubus and Manitous. They can all be banished if they are drained first but paragons have extremely high SR which makes ruins a really good way to deal with them.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Dec 21, 2012 16:28:22 GMT
If you know how to play a cleric you shall never use ruin, period. Name me a monster you often use ruin against and I'll call you a noob. There are some mobs I like to use ruin against: Dybbuks, Guecubus and Manitous. They can all be banished if they are drained first but paragons have extremely high SR which makes ruins a really good way to deal with them. Incidentally i have PSF Necro for drain and ESF for banish. If i could, I would grab it (or LSF Evoc), but since this build has some feat and skill point starvation, I won't be able to fit Ruin. --------------------- However, if someone wants a similar build without these flaws: - Ditch Heal 50 for Spell craft 50 - Get LSF Evoc and Greater Ruin instead of Great Wisdom IX-X.
|
|
|
Post by laserpointer on Dec 21, 2012 18:15:16 GMT
If you know how to play a cleric you shall never use ruin, period. Name me a monster you often use ruin against and I'll call you a noob. There are some mobs I like to use ruin against: Dybbuks, Guecubus and Manitous. They can all be banished if they are drained first but paragons have extremely high SR which makes ruins a really good way to deal with them. Maybe, except that paragon banishable fey all have high fort even after curse. Greater ruin isn't an automatic instakill, it still has to make a save vs DC 65 (quite low for 2x a day). I have it on one character at the moment and it fails quite often versus paragons in general (and normal mobs are barely worth using the feat for). The one caster that might be able to fit it in feat-wise without sacrificing too much is druid, mainly because all schools are quite sad besides evocation and transmutation. But that's the exact class that has no need for the main perk about GR: it ignores SR.
|
|