Champion of Deneir (Fallen Angel 33 Pal 5 HS 2Ftr)

[buddhamind]

Champion of Deneir

Fallen Angel Paladin

Purpose of this build: To make the best paladin possible with a UR subrace!


Deneir (pronounced deh-NEER), often called The Scribe of Oghma, was the neutral good lesser deity of art, cartography, glyphs, images, knowledge, literature and scholars.

A Harper agent (also known as a Harper scout) is a member of the semi-secret organization known as the Harpers, and members are scattered all across Faerûn. These individuals are dedicated to battling evil, discovering and preserving forgotten lore, and maintaining the balance between nature and civilization. Harper agents are the "field agents" of the Harper organization, acting directly to gather intelligence and eliminate threats to the greater good. Equally adept at operating alone or in small groups, agents display a versatility that few others can match.



Race: Half-Elf
FC: Any, Low-Light Vision, 1 extra skill point per level
Can take LSA Spot and Listen during LLs
Immune to Sleep

Subrace: Fallen Angel
FC: Base Race/Cleric
+5 Wisdom +2 Charisma
Strider, Adds Wings, +10 Heal
Free Feats: Divine Might, Divine Shield

Alignment: Lawful Good

Abilities

	At Creation	After Log-in
STR	15	15
DEX	8	8
CON	10	10
WIS	9	14
INT	14	14
CHA	17	19

Level	Class	Abilities	Skills	Feats
1	Fighter			Blooded Power Attack
2	Paladin
3	Paladin			Weapon Focus: Morningstar
4	Paladin	Cha
5	Paladin
6	Paladin			Alertness
7	Paladin
8	Fighter	Cha		Improved Critical: Morningstar
9	Paladin		4 Discipline 6 Lore 8 Persuade 4 Search (Cross-class)	Iron Will
10	Paladin
11	Paladin
12	Paladin	Cha		Cleave
13	Paladin
14	Paladin
15	Paladin			Great Cleave
16	Paladin	Cha
17	Paladin
18	Paladin			Extra Smiting
19	Paladin
20	Paladin	Cha
21	Harper Scout			Epic Weapon Focus: Morningstar Great Charisma I
22	Paladin		25 Concentration
23	Paladin
24	Paladin	Str		Great Smiting I
25	Harper Scout
26	Harper Scout
27	Paladin			Great Smiting II
28	Paladin	Str
29	Harper Scout			Great Charisma II
30	Paladin			Great Smiting III and IV
31	Paladin
32	Paladin	Str
33	Paladin			Great Smiting V and VI
34	Paladin
35	Paladin
36	Paladin	Str		Great Smiting VII and VIII
37	Paladin
38	Paladin
39	Paladin			Great Smiting IX and X
40	Paladin	Str
41	Paladin
42	Paladin	Str		LSA: Tumble
43	Paladin
44	Paladin	Str
45	Paladin			LSA: Listen
46	Paladin	Str
47	Paladin
48	Paladin	Str		Epic Prowess
49	Paladin
50	Paladin	Str
51	Paladin			Armor Skin
52	Paladin	Str
53	Paladin
54	Paladin	Str		Legendary Weapon Focus: Morningstar
55	Paladin
56	Paladin	Str
57	Paladin		60 Tumble	Overwhelming Critical
58	Paladin	Str
59	Paladin
60	Paladin	Str	63 Listen 63 Discipline 63 Parry 13 Craft Armor 13 Craft Weapon	Devastating Critical

Abilities at Level 60

	Stats	+14
STR	44	58
DEX	8	22
CON	12	26
WIS	14	28
INT	12	26
CHA	30	44

Saves at Level 60 (Fully Geared)

Fort	74
Reflex	64
Will	69

Armor Class at Level 60

Base	10
Natural	17
Deflection	17
Dodge	20
Armor (Heavy)	8+18=26
Shield (Tower)	3+15=18
Dex	3
Tumble	12
Craft Armor	1
Armor Skin	2
TOTAL	126

Add 4 for girding.
Add 1-2 for Demi stat bonuses, 1 for +16 gear, 3 if you wear an Asmo item, 3 if you can get a Strongheart, and 2 from the Cania plate.
Add 1 or 2 for exceptionally randomized items.


Attack Bonus at Level 60

Base	20
Epic	10
Legendary	15
WF	1
GWF	0
EWF	2
LWF	3
Epic Prowess	1
Craft Weapon	1
Strength mod	24
Magical Bonus	20
TOTAL	97

7 attacks per round with moliated Harper boots.
Progression 97 / 92 / 87 / 82 / 97 / 92 / 87
Add 1-2 for Demi stat bonuses, and 1 for +16 gear.

Final HP = 860
Great Smite AB = 93
Great Smite Damage = 68d20 (+17d20 Sacred)

[buddhamind]

Pelor's Forgotten Champion
(Fallen Angel 31 Pal / 5 HS / 4 Ftr)
Non-smiting version, picks up dexterity, weapon specialization, extend spell, and +1 AB
Similar to Vichya's Harper Knight of Mystra


Race: Half-Elf
FC: Any, Low-Light Vision, 1 extra skill point per level
Can take LSA Spot and Listen during LLs
Immune to Sleep

Subrace: Fallen Angel
FC: Base Race/Cleric
+5 Wisdom +2 Charisma
Strider, Adds Wings, +10 Heal
Free Feats: Divine Might, Divine Shield

Alignment: Lawful Good

Abilities

	At Creation	After Log-in
STR	16	16
DEX	16	16
CON	12	12
WIS	10	15
INT	12	12
CHA	8	10

Level	Class	Abilities	Skills	Feats
1	Fighter			Blooded Power Attack
2	Paladin
3	Paladin			Weapon Focus: Morningstar
4	Paladin	Str
5	Paladin
6	Paladin			Alertness
7	Paladin
8	Fighter	Str		Improved Critical: Morningstar
9	Paladin		4 Discipline 6 Lore 8 Persuade 4 Search (Cross-class)	Iron Will
10	Paladin
11	Paladin
12	Paladin	Str		Cleave
13	Paladin
14	Paladin
15	Paladin			Great Cleave
16	Paladin	Str
17	Paladin
18	Paladin			Greater Weapon Focus
19	Paladin
20	Paladin	Str
21	Harper Scout			Epic Weapon Focus: Morningstar Great Dexterity I
22	Paladin		25 Concentration
23	Fighter
24	Fighter	Str		Weapon Specialization Epic Weapon Specialization
25	Harper Scout
26	Harper Scout
27	Paladin			Extend Spell
28	Harper Scout	Str
29	Harper Scout			Great Dexterity II
30	Paladin			Epic Prowess
31	Paladin
32	Paladin	Str		Armor Skin
33	Paladin			Great Strength I
34	Paladin
35	Paladin			Great Strength II
36	Paladin	Str		Great Strength III
37	Paladin
38	Paladin			Great Strength IV
39	Paladin			Great Dexterity III
40	Paladin	Str
41	Paladin
42	Paladin	Str		LSA: Tumble
43	Paladin
44	Paladin	Str
45	Paladin			LSA: Listen
46	Paladin	Str
47	Paladin
48	Paladin	Str		Legendary Weapon Specialization
49	Paladin
50	Paladin	Str
51	Paladin			Great Dexterity IV
52	Paladin	Str
53	Paladin
54	Paladin	Str		Legendary Weapon Focus: Morningstar
55	Paladin
56	Paladin	Str
57	Paladin		60 Tumble	Overwhelming Critical
58	Paladin	Str
59	Paladin
60	Paladin	Str	63 Listen 63 Discipline 63 Parry 13 Craft Armor 13 Craft Weapon	Devastating Critical

Abilities at Level 60

	Stats	+14
STR	44	58
DEX	20	34
CON	12	26
WIS	15	29
INT	12	26
CHA	14	28

Saves at Level 60 (Fully Geared)

Fort	66
Reflex	62
Will	61

Armor Class at Level 60

Base	10
Natural	17
Deflection	17
Dodge	20
Armor (Light)	3+16=19
Shield (Large)	2+15=17
Dex	12
Tumble	12
Craft Armor	1
Armor Skin	2
TOTAL	127

Add 4 for girding.
Add 1-2 for Demi stat bonuses, 1 for +16 gear, 3 if you wear an Asmo item, and 3 if you can get a Strongheart.
Add 1 or 2 for exceptionally randomized items.


Attack Bonus at Level 60

Base	20
Epic	10
Legendary	15
WF	1
GWF	1
EWF	2
LWF	3
Epic Prowess	1
Craft Weapon	1
Strength mod	24
Magical Bonus	20
TOTAL	98

7 attacks per round with Harper boots.
Progression 97 / 92 / 87 / 82 / 97 / 92 / 87
Add 1-2 for Demi stat bonuses, and 1 for +16 gear.

Final HP = 920

[buddhamind]

Anticipated Questions

Why Fighter? Can't you do COT and get just as many feats, while preserving your smite AB?
You can make COT work... if smite AB is all you care about. Since you lose Pally epic bonus feats almost as fast as you can take COT levels, you need something like 8 COT levels to get the same number of feats as you can get from 2 fighter levels. That many COT levels means you lose a ton of Pally caster levels on your buffs. In addition, taking Fighter at level 1 means you can cheese your wisdom to be exactly 14, which you couldn't possibly do with COT.

Why Fallen Angel?
You really want a Paladin to have Half-Elf as a base race, in order to take LSA: Listen. The UR subraces that can be Half-Elf are: Dragonblooded, Nobarian, Yukio, Doppleganger, Fallen Angel, Lycan, and Planewalker. Of these, Fallen Angel gets Divine Might and Divine Shield for free, which means two less feats to take, and it gets a bonus to Charisma without a penalty to Wisdom or Strength. Thus making it the best possible choice. In addition, it has FC: Highest which means this build does not get an XP penalty.

Why Morningstar?
You need a medium martial or simple weapon, so there are lots of choices. I like morningstar because of the double weapon type bludgeoning/piercing. If I recall correctly this means it will apply the best type to whatever monster you are fighting, which will give you a boost in physical damage. Beyond that, there is not really much difference between the medium martial weapons. A 19-20 x2 (like morningstar) will perform about the same, on average, as a 20 x3. Focusing in morningstar will also let you wield the Min tearstar with great results.

HOWEVER, I've heard that morningstar is scheduled for a change to 20 x1.5 which is significantly worse. When that change ever happens, you should probably pick something else.


Other Build Ideas

Get OC/DC from an item
If you drop natural OC/DC, it frees up five feats, which means you can either:

• Drop the 2 fighter levels and pick up Greater Weapon Focus for better weapon AB and smite AB. You can also pick up Extend spell, which is very handy, but note that you will need at least 15 base Wisdom to cast extended level 4 spells. You can get this with Demi x1, or (if you simply can't wait) by picking up a Great Wisdom feat. You will also need an item that grants level 5 slots, such as the POM ring, the abyss belt or a randomized item.
  
• Or pick up two more fighter levels, to unlock Weapon specialization feats for a big bonus to physical damage at the cost of more Pally CLs and smite AB.
  

Drop Harper levels
If you drop the HS levels, you no longer need the fighter levels, so you can go pure Pally for awesome smite AB and the really nice +15 self weapon buff from Clang. If you have a CL aug you can even splash Bard to pick up UMD, which is really handy on a Paladin if you have enough Int for the skill points. This, of course, comes at the rather large expense of losing the 2 extra attacks per round from using moliated boots of the wanderer.

[the1kobra]

Oct 21, 2012 17:23:59 GMT buddhamind said:

Anticipated Questions

Why take 4 Harper levels pre-epic?
Because you need all ten Great Smiting feats before level 41, in order to receive all ten strength bonuses. Since you can't take Great Smiting on HS or Fighter levels, you can only take a maximum of two non-paladin levels from level 21-40. Harper Scout is a Tier 2 BAB class which means you have to sacrifice one AB by taking between 3 and 4 HS levels pre-epic.

Actually, that part isn't true.
It's true you can only take epic great smite on HS or fighter levels, however, this means you only need to take (epic) paladin on the levels which you gain a feat. Since Harper Scouts can take great-charisma with their bonus feats, that means you could get another stat point if you moved HS to epic as well. Since you get 33 Paladin levels, that means you get 7+4 feats in which you get the opportunity to take Great Smite, so this means you can use one other for great CHA and still fit in your great smites.

To demonstrate:
21: HS: G-Cha 1, EWF Morningstar
22: Paladin(19):
23: Paladin(20):
24: Paladin(21): Great-Smite 1, +STR
25: HS:
26: HS:
27: Paladin: Great Smite 2
28: HS:
29: HS: G-Cha 2
30: Paladin: Great Smite 3+4
31: Paladin:
32: Paladin:
33: Paladin: Great Smite 5+6
34: Paladin:
35: Paladin:
36: Paladin: Great Smite 7+8
37: Paladin:
38: Paladin:
39: Paladin: Great Smite 9+10
40: Paladin:

And there you go, 1 CHA and AB up. Enjoy
This also means that you can reduce your starting CHA to 17(19), and put 3 points into CON too... hmm...

[buddhamind]

Hey, that works! Thanks Kobra!

I'll update the build in a few minutes.

[hfb]

Oct 21, 2012 17:24:37 GMT buddhamind said:

Other Build Ideas

Get OC/DC from an item
If you drop natural OC/DC, it frees up five feats, which means you can either:

• Drop the 2 fighter levels and pick up Greater Weapon Focus for better weapon AB and smite AB. You can also pick up Extend spell, which is very handy,
  
• Or pick up two more fighter levels, to unlock Weapon specialization feats for a big bonus to physical damage at the cost of more Pally CLs and smite AB.
  

Drop Harper levels
If you drop the HS levels, you no longer need the fighter levels, so you can go pure Pally for awesome smite AB and the really nice +15 self weapon buff from Clang. If you have a CL aug you can even splash Bard to pick up UMD, which is really handy on a Paladin if you have enough Int for the skill points. This, of course, comes at the rather large expense of losing the 2 extra attacks per round from using moliated boots of the wanderer.

RE: Weapon Specialization. Four fighter levels are needed to get W.Spec. Another fighter lvl is required during epic lvls to get E.W.Spec. For a total of 5 ftr lvls. I believe then the Legendary and Paragon feats are open to you, but I have not tested this personally. (The pre/Epic req.s are tested/reliable as I have personally ran afoul of it and there is documentation to this effect in the nwn wiki page.)

RE: HS. Additional cost = the really nice elemental immunity which can make/break gear setups (This is rather more for those looking at the build for ideas/guidance rather than for you Buddhamind).

A question: is there any access to the "expected weapon (re-)modifications" that are expected in three days? I have seen a couple of references to this and am curious if one of Funky's (or someone else's) google docs is floating around in some unknown (to me) cloud bank.

[buddhamind]

Oct 31, 2012 19:43:14 GMT hfb said:

A question: is there any access to the "expected weapon (re-)modifications" that are expected in three days? I have seen a couple of references to this and am curious if one of Funky's (or someone else's) google docs is floating around in some unknown (to me) cloud bank.

I don't know if the proposed weapon changes are documented anywhere, but Shard's build tool has them in it. That's where I got the 20 x1.5 for morningstar.

[Yojimbo]

Funky had put out a spread sheet a while back I don't know where it is though. For AC numbers if I am not mistaken only the BG Cania plate has bonus AC but I could be mistaken as I don't have the Pally armor to verify.

[hfb]

Thanks for the clue.

[Vichya]

Oct 31, 2012 19:43:14 GMT hfb said:

RE: Weapon Specialization. Four fighter levels are needed to get W.Spec. Another fighter lvl is required during epic lvls to get E.W.Spec. For a total of 5 ftr lvls. I believe then the Legendary and Paragon feats are open to you, but I have not tested this personally. (The pre/Epic req.s are tested/reliable as I have personally ran afoul of it and there is documentation to this effect in the nwn wiki page.)

This is not entirely accurate. Weapon Specialization requires 4 fighter class levels. But the epic version can be taken on any fighter or CoT level if you have weapon specialization. Legendary and Paragon version only require the epic version and can be taken with any control class.

To give an example: you only need 4 fighter levels to get all the specialization feats. In order to do that you have to take the 4th fighter level at an epic level where you also get a feat so you can take both the normal and the epic specialization on the same level.

Slingers and Lashes get weapon specialization as a quasi-class bonus feat, so they only need 1 fighter level to take the epic version and can then take legendary and paragon specialization later.

[hfb]

Thanks for the info for me on the L/P w.spec. And the clarification/expansions.

[buddhamind]

Added uni non-smiter version to second post in this thread. Apparently Vichya and I think alike when it comes to Paladins. The non-smiting version picks up dexterity, weapon specialization, extend spell, and +1 AB compared to the original. Beware, the new version is untested.

[buddhamind]

I dropped the first build in this thread from the "recommended" category of the Wiki. It has stability issues-- it gets absolutely creamed by just about anything in Dis or Min (at level 60, 0x Demi, without strongheart). I will be reincarnating soon to the second build on this thread (non-smiter) to pick up Dex and some HP and AC. I might also add some Hide skill to boost party Camouflage.

- Pick up Dexterity to avoid disabling checks
- Find a reliable source of conceal
- Use a strongheart (will need to borrow it from my Barbarian)
- Drop some strength for constitution and/or dexterity

[Torin]

Feb 22, 2015 16:23:03 GMT buddhamind said:

- Find a reliable source of conceal

Rona boots: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Efi%27Eilon%27s_Anklets

Edit:

.....turned out as baaaad idea, see below (displacement cancel when boots get removed)

[chirality]

Unless you lack hide completely, then after song even a lower-dex/heavier-AC-penalty toon doesn't have too much difficulty (should be at least 20ish hide mod = 5ish%) hitting low-mid30s from CL50 or low 40s w/CL60 camo. That's a lot less than 50, especially after 60+ Listen. But if you're looking to improve Hide anyway, it's at least an option. Don't get me wrong--I'll go to great lengths for just 1% more conceal--but swapping anything other than ring slot more than once (initial buff sequence or at worst post-death) is no fun.

The problem I see with relying on those boots (CL50=5min flat) for HS in particular is a) boot slot and b) even still it's just another 5 minish "required" buff like hsboot which is annoying. And if you end up "wasting" it due various reasons (amni least of which--here i mean stuff like party breaks for afk or core suddenly needing rest etc) then you're basically forced to rest or enjoy not having the buff. Well, at least those boots can do 3/day tho.

Chameleon Jewel ring offers CL45, and Links (ideal choice unless you rely on armor for DW/weapbuff slots) is 50. Swapping armor is clunky indeed but if you only need it once/rest it's not too bad.