Improve PDK - Cloak of Cormyr (a PDK Secret)

[desocupado]

Well, this prestige class is almost non-existant so, a class specific gear could help it, like Harper Scout's Boots.

Unique features
Considering the Purple Knight is a "Leader" his class secret could have spells like "Battle Tide", "Warcry" and "Allegro".
I'd suggest having all of them, using a charge system maybe with 20 charges per rest.
They could Have CL 50 and spell Penetration 60.

• Battle Tide - 8 Charges
  
• Warcry - 6 Charges
  
• Allegro - 4 Charges
  

Stats:
Maybe the cloak could have:

• Physical immunities 10% (15% moliated)
  
• Stat bonuses to Str and Cha +8 (+14 moliated)
  
• Status immunities: Fear
  
• True seeing, Freedom, SR 32
  
• Charges 16 (24 Moliated)
  
• Restriction: Only usable by non-evil and non-chaotic
  
• Restriction: Requires 5 levels of PDK and level 40
  

How does this sounds?
Numbers could be changed but the idea would be giving more utility to this prestige class making it more comparable to a Harper.

[gandoron]

I would love to see the pdk abilities function like the druid fonts with some minimal stacking. Currently most of the abilities (ab/ac) are basically useless. The standup is nice, though limited uses (unless this was changed).

-Graham

[desocupado]

Well I tried making a PDK on a CoT Purple Champion - Pal 5 PDK 5 CoT 30 as it seemed the class that could afford it, as the Harper Wasn't as attractive.
The verdict was: The abilities are more amusing than useful. They cannot, by a long shot, replace a bard. Nor they have a reasonable amount of unique utility to compare to other splash choices.

--I mean would someone seriously consider PDK over:
Harper 5 (and the boots with 2 extra attacks and nice elemental immunities)
Fighter 4 and Pal 1 (up to +20 physical damage and Cha mod saves and, perhaps, divine might)
Monk 1 or DwD 1 (attack progression and/or ac bonus)
WM 5 (higher Critical hit multiplier)

All in all, battletide could be enough to make people want a PDK splash.

[chirality]

I agree. But at the same time there already is quite an abundance of tanks with save-lowering/DC-increasing auras. It's a shame because it really is a great and desirable mechanic but...between barb and xDD, not to mention shifter/lich curse as bard stand-in...then bard itself plus cleric itself.

Course I could say the same for my +phys damage to help rouges or assassins, kind of exactly the same picture.

Hard to come up with new stuff that hasn't been done before when everyone only wants the same things eh...

[desocupado]

Well, if it needs to be more unique, maybe a SR ignoring Battletide with -3 debuff drops.
As long as it doesn't stack with the original spell it isn't half-bad.

[chirality]

True enough.

Ignoring SR would be cool for the obvious reasons.

Well I really like the idea of Warcry and Allegro.

How about Mass Haste even, perhaps improving attacks/round based on something other than Trans ranks (something more realistic for PDK).

I remember years ago both seeing a few variations as well as discussing with friends some tweaks to improve PDK. My opinion for their "niche" is basically as we all take it, but in particular I like combat support that is not intended to replace or substitute for a bard but maybe take from even more esoteric sources (such as Mass Haste although that was just off the top of my head).

Then again I'm not saying avoid any bard-esque traits--stuff like picking up etc. is cool.

Is it possible to somehow initiate a mass PT2? That would be pretty cool.

What about something like a single-target but, with enough uses to be slightly spammable, buff that provides something like equivalent to survival of a certain type, not flavored like environmental protection though but more to provide 1-time (ex.) immunity to instakill from for instance levi based attack (toss) or perhaps even other certain instakills such as decapitations or eye pluck blinding etc.

Well I don't want to spark a whole GR discussion again but maybe some sort of alleviation of debuffs, perhaps limited to say only physical inflicts or only AB/dmg curses etc.

Some kind of mechanic to improve others' combat prowess but I see this as more specific to physical combat; like Deso says, BT would be really cool (especially given the spell flavor itself), I don't picture SR debuffs or saving throw reductions though as much as AC, AB, damage, etc.

Maybe some kind of "curse" limited in scope to reduction of mobs skills

This could help maybe a) give PDK a viable offensive role as far as a "special ability" and b) maybe help address the issue of many skills being hard to land due to high skill mods on monsters

Maybe reducing parry, disciple only

What about producing a useful pot such as HS, not sure what else but pos pots errr...i dunno

single-target buff providing Aura of Courage (another augury-type thing maybe, perhaps with scaling improving charges based on something PDKish)

some kind of aura providing immunity to gaze attacks?

Well these are just some ideas also, I didn't want to step in your thread and criticize it without even providing anything I would really like to see PDK given a legit place in a party, it is great to get the ball rolling with something like suggesting item-based specials

[chirality]

Hmm, well as for granting abilities to address physical inflicts, how about some kind of CoT-type constant tick self buff that cures physical inflicts, I think this could even be provided an aura and not be too overpowered

i think a few things could be done with auras and have them be quite small in start but could improve based on something

maybe for full-level PDK give them IoF

Guarantee that would be instant hot n sexy makeover ;D

[desocupado]

Cool ideas.

I'd surely consider a PDK splash for IoF. Or a 3 minute Dirge of Deathless, since we are talking about epics.

Yeah stuff can be more way more unique than an SR ignoring Battletide.
It just was sweet to imagine a xDD PDK with that would dropping Saves nearly as much as a Cleric - note to self get a Crown of Corruption on a xDD/Barbarian.

For extra ideas:

• What about an Large area aura (maybe as large as Str 40 Battle tide) granting stacking Physical damage 4 + (Character level including LL)/10. Perhaps Enemies could lose that much damage as well.
  
• An effect preventing/canceling Domination/Grapple (Would be a nice buff for Final Stand).
  
• Some effect preventing the next amnesia effect on every party member (Inspire Courage comes to mind)
  
• An item that makes Heroic Shield also Lesser Restore the target in addition to the regular effect.
  

[vulp]

Jan 16, 2013 6:27:41 GMT chirality said:

True enough.

IIs it possible to somehow initiate a mass PT2? That would be pretty cool.

This document contains details of custom changes to Purple Dragon Knights on Higher Ground:

Final Stand
- Instead of granting temporary hit points, it brings all allies in a Large radius to their feet, removing knockdown effects. The radius increases by 1m for every 6 points of Charisma modifier the PDK has, up to a maximum of double the normal radius at 70 Charisma. It can be used 2 + (Lvl / 10) times per day to a max of 8.

[FunkySwerve]

We used items as a cludge, back when editing abilities was more difficult. Instead of a new class secret, I'm much more inclined to simply alter the abilities if necessary to make the class a viable splash. Suggestions should focus on that, rather than items.

Funky

[Yojimbo]

Idea for PDK dynamic scaling of the AoE Player Assist. CHA ups the radius this can stay but maybe absolute KD immunity for Rounds based on STR and/or DEX. I like Inspire Courage but its use is so limited with only 2 uses per day/rest and I don't know if it cures being Turned haven't had a chance to test that if not it would be an additional useful feature. Heroic Shield is ok and with unlimited use it does make it seem a bit balanced but the practical application of it is so limited its effectively a useless ability. I think Rallying Cry could be improved as well it seems to be limited functionality additional limiting due to the fairly short duration.

[FunkySwerve]

Can anyone who has played a PDK for a decent amount of time at level 50+ comment on Yojimbo's evaluations? I'm guessing not, based on perceived utility, but it's worth asking. If not, please focus on the abilities you find least useful, and the ways they could be improved to the point of usefulness.

Funky

[desocupado]

I can only tell my experience 1-40 with the build I posted above (which seemed to have decent synergy with PDK). I can suggest a few buffs

• Inspire Courage - Could be a quick action
  
• Fear - Could have (Cha modifier +5) duration - still doubling at 41
  
• Heroic Shield - Could have a secondary effect granting temporary HPs like a bard song to the target - like a true "shield" spell
  
• Oath of Wrath - Racial bonuses could scale to very high numbers to offset the limited duration (like up +20 bonus to attack, damage, saves, and skills vs. that opponent racial group at Character level 60)
  
• Rallying Cry - While AB boost is somewhat nice, if you lack a true song, it's nearly pointless if you have a bard. Maybe it could grant an additional Attack per round (like Warchanter's haste). Duration = (Cha modifier + 5) would be nice as well.
  

If anything Oath of Wrath and Fear need to feel stronger, since they are single casting per rest.
Heroic Shield needs an incentive to use on healthy targets (25 temporary hp per 10 character levels seems cool and fitting enough).

Rallying Cry is really uninteresting at the moment. An additional attack per round would be a nice buff for tanks that lack extra attacks, but due limited uses per day one would needs to balance when to recast for someone who just died, of for oneself. Mass FoM would be a sweet alternative.

[Yojimbo]

I found Oath of Wrath to have a nice bonus in the fact that there is no prerequisite to the Crit Immunity unlike almost every other Crit Immunity. Though it is limited to the race of the target perhaps some other effects to go along with the Crit Immunity.

Fear isn't perfect but since it works all the time any time its not terrible but I am not sure I have bothered using it outside of Lowbie leveling maybe as just a topper on bosses to ensure they have a good AC drop.

Rallying Cry I have the same issue with as the Pally/Cleric/BG secret which gives a Bard Song like effect the duration is just not there. They are also greatly inferior in power for the Pally/Cleric/BG song I usually find I have much better uses for Turn Undead. I would like to see something that really makes me feel like I am rallying the troops.

Heroic Shields biggest use would be on those who recently died in Hell and such areas to recover some lost AC but typically I fail to notice or think about it and IIRC it only works when close and won't auto move to go cast it. This has also been covered by several other spells and abilities that can do it far more efficiently.