3 weeks of by no means casual play. I also wouldn't consider it a normal trade, it was an item that someone obviously desperately wanted, and had stashes of BUR books for just such an occasion, a stroke of luck that all factors came into play at the same time.
It was also interesting to note that you had mentioned the last time you put BUR subs into the auction chest, they were purchased by a single individual to hand out to friends. This doesn't really leave much room for new players to acquire books when you have vets who have stockpiled 50+ billion to splurge on whatever they want.
The drop rates on BUR subbies are quite rare, but there are ideas in this thread that shine hope on the whole thing, without breaking the mod as it stands. I would love to see a random BUR tag handed out to people who first complete their x1 demi, and only once per account.
So now, as a new player, I get to see all of these veteran players running around with cool subraces and knowing that I'll never have the opportunity to either personally find the book I want, or be able to trade for one, since they are so prized that most wont even sell them.
I see a Rilmani book at 4 bils on 111 surely put there by some bored vet.
Oh it's yours
So the morale is, noobs should stick around, bur races will come in .. 4-5 months approx
actually, to be fair most of my books I have received from buying from auction or trading . but yes, if you run abyss/deep hells a lot they can drop, but are still very rare.I have run a lot of abyss/hell since I started here, probably not a lot based on opinions from 2+ years ago, but current times it's pretty difficult to get them going.
When I created this thread I was seeking kolyarut, which I got due to a stroke of luck(through trade). If I hadn't, I would most likely still be seeking that subrace
In truth, the major consequence of this insanely low BUR drop rate is to create an vast chasm between veterans and new players. When we were new, we accumulated BURs at an accelerated pace. New players will have to play for years to obtain the BURs we take for granted. UR races drop less frequently that do many BUR items. The rarity of BUR races effectively place Abyssal runs and any new XR areas beyond the reach of a sizable segment of the HG community.
Furthermore, newer players who do acquire BUR books seem to get them by paying exorbitant prices to veteran players who have bank chests full of BUR items. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that we are simultaneously addressing the problem of new players' inability to acquire BUR races while fretting that veterans have too much gold in their wallets even as we force new players to bid against each other to buy books from those very same veterans?
To be honest, I fail to understand the apparent obsession by some players over the supposed in-game wealth of others. I am told this unbalances the game. Nonsense! HG is unbalanced by veterans having the races and gear needed to run Hell and the Abyss while other players spend their first six-twelve months on HG farming Desert, DB, and Uro so that they can buy the spare BUR books and gear those veterans pick up on extraplanar runs.
All measure of the BUR drop rate seems to be subjective and anecdotal. Is there any objective manner to actually tally the number and type of BUR books which drop in a given month? I suspect the actual number will be far lower than you expect. I make several Hell and Abyss runs on most weeks, and I cannot recall the last time I saw a BUR race drop. It's so easy for critics to post on the BUR drop rate, but do we actually have any objective method to discover how many actually do?
"What's it like being an atheist? It's like being the only sober person in a car full of drunks, and they refuse to let you drive." Thomas Jefferson 1801
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that we are simultaneously addressing the problem of new players' inability to acquire BUR races while fretting that veterans have too much gold in their wallets even as we force new players to bid against each other to buy books from those very same veterans?
I don't really find it ironic but at the same time I don't really like how subraces are implemented (would rather they be set loot, but whatever). I would find it ironic if it concerned loot like a cha arty, pw ring, serpent blood/ulith, temporal autocaster or wrap of the dark prince. Any of these set items can be easily obtained in under 6 hours (TA under 10ish hours).
But ask me to get a half celestial or rad gen? On average that would probably take me over 10000 hours of playing, probably more in which time I could get maybe 100 temporal autocasters, 1 trillion gold or something. If a player asks for a top tier BUR subrace from me or another vet I certainly won't find it fair unless they are willing to fork over at least 50 billion gold or 20+ extremely rare sets, if not more. Or alternatively they could offer up an uber once in a lifetime ego which would probably be unbalanced in my favor.
Just trying to give some perspective here of why it seems like vets aren't willing to relinquish subraces even for 10s of billions of gold. The fact of the matter is that top tier BUR subraces are the hardest to find items on the server atm short of godly egoes/randomizations which generally aren't as useful compared to +stats, +feats, +imms that a BUR sub will give.
Also another factor to consider is that UR augs just aren't as valuable as they used to be as trade bait for subs now with the release of the aug shop.
inb4 "but when lots of ppl play one will surely drop just trade for it!!"
Should something be done? No idea, I would rather let someone else be the judge...this topic comes up like every 6 months anyway
Just to throw in my cents (or lack thereof hur hur)...
In my opinion a big part of the "problem" (being, apparent rarity of BUR subs and in particular the "good" ones) is the fact that the BUR pool is so oversaturated with items. The chance of getting any one BUR, be it an item or a book, seems pretty insane. Yeah, I know--Beyond Ultra Rare. But a lot of the impetus behind these threads/complaints that pop up on a regular basis is the conflict between "nowadays" and "back then". As long as "back then" is being used as a frame of reference for "nowadays" it must be considered that "back then" there were a LOT less BURs, both books and items. Each new item added makes it that much harder to get any one item. I'm not sure anymore what the chance of getting a book period is, or what the chance is of getting any one book once a book is rolled. But surely after the last group of new BUR gear, plus the new BUR subs, plus the pulpa thing, this is a lot different from "back then". It's one thing to constantly pop a lot of BUR-drop consumables and feel aggravated but it's another to realize that any one BUR you're looking for is basically playing powerball.
What I'm trying to say is that I think there is just so many BURs at the moment that it's having a large impact on the difficulty or perceived difficulty of obtaining a "good" bur sub.
A lot of BUR subs are bad, some are REALLY bad (spelljammer), and some are REALLY good. Not only is it harder than ever to roll a bur book in the first place but the chance of getting a "good" one is rarer than ever after the last package was introduced.
I'm not saying this is bad or good and I'm not complaining necessarily. I just feel that the sheer volume of possible BURs to be had is extremely intimidating.
It'd be nice if there was some way to separate BUR subs completely from the random drop list. I have a feeling this isn't where laser was going but some way of "guaranteeing" that you can do X and have a reliable chance of getting a BUR sub would go a long way toward alleviating the enormous odds you face.
I also think that manipulation of droprates with new stuff (I assume to boost circulation) seems to always come back to "bite us". I understand that I'm an econ noob and I don't mean to claim that I know why or how this is done, but it's certainly pretty obvious. In the past it was the super-high droprate of BUR Sub Group X that caused problems. At the moment I have 50ish pulpa augs banked and i stopped even grabbing them now. I see at least one or 2 every time I farm hades and I've seen at least one on the last BUR zone runs I've done (yes, I'm not talking about 20 count parties with a lot of poop, like normal mode norm, but still). This seems absolutely ridiculous to me. The fact that one single BUR item has dropped so frequently is problematic to me. Imagine if those 50+ BUR drops had been real gear or subs? You wouldn't hear my complaining about BUR sub drops, that's for sure.
It's frustrating. I do see BUR subs drop (or more often, hear of them drop). But I really wish I didn't have to pop 50 pulpa augs and 500 draughts/herbs/seeds/power orbs to see one actual BUR item or sub book. The last hell run I went on resulted in no actual BUR items (let alone subs)--just consumables + pulpa. Abyss I haven't seen as many pulpas, and have yet to find one in the chests (that would piss me off pretty bad), but ultimately it's pretty frustrating to feel like I could pop a dozen BUR subs without finding the one I actually want, or to feel like I could pop five dozen BURs without finding a sub book.
I'm probably wrong and making incorrect assumptions but as best as I can tell, there is just way too many BURs, period. It's not just that there are fewer players, fewer deep runs, yada yada. It's not just that people are hoarding the "good" subs because they are greedy; the reason they're more valuable than ever isn't just because people aren't going out and finding them as much as in the past. There's so much competition that it's stifling and suffocating. I feel like I'm drowning in BURs that are things I don't want or need and no one else wants or needs it either.
More than ever it seems like pure, unadulterated luck. It's hard to say that you can farm BUR zone X with conditions A B and C and after Y amount of time you will find Z. It seems like you farm BUR zone X and you might not see a book for 3 months or you might see one in the 3rd spawn. I've made some ridiculously-lucky pops in hades where you find a sick BUR (or even sub) in 5 mins, and I've also farmed it for 500 hours without finding more than one or 2. This is a good thing in my opinion but what isn't good is that it feels hopeless to expect or plan for any one BUR, let alone a BUR sub. Do it enough and you'll get lucky--I'm a firm believer in that. But how long can you do something without results before you say screw it and move on?
set loot bur books would make absolute perfect sense, if you wanted to perhaps add a little more "rarity" to it you could add in, in replace of a whole book, pages, and you have to collect, let' say...5 pages to complete a whole book. perhaps make pages labeled 1-5, and have all 5 drop from one run, or spread them out amongst other runs.