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Post by Ryu-Kishin on Feb 16, 2013 5:20:59 GMT
I have a serious dilemma here. I was kind enough to recieve some help as soon as I started playing and got ran through the maze for Illithid at level 3, yeah it was fun. I am in love with wizards and love to loot and in the campaign my companion was always pixie for that reason. I never thought of splashing rogue for rogue skills then I came here and found out not only is it plausible, but it is totally amazing in the way it is set up! I will set up two builds here, one pure and one with rogue splash. The pure will take pixie and attempt locks and stuff (how far can pixie go with unlocking before he/she becomes useless)? The splash rogue will get bonus xp and hopefully be able to unlock everything, but at a cost :/ Let me know which route you would take, rogue splash or pure and pixie! PURE BUILDGnome: Illithid Strength 9 (8 after Illithid) Dexterity 14 Constitution 15 (14 after Illithid) Wisdom 8 Intelligence 18 (23 after Illithid) Charisma 8 Read Spell Penetration Book! Max Intelligence at all levels! Pre-Epic Feats: GSF Illusion, SF/GSF Necromancy, SF/GSF Evoc, SF/GSF Trans, SF/GSF Conj, Extend, Empower Epic Feats: Great Int 1-8, ESF x5 Legendary Feats: L Spell Pen, Great Int 9, LSF x5 ROGUE BUILDElf: Illithid Strength 9 (8 after Illithid) Dexterity 16 Constitution 11 (10 after Illithid) Wisdom 8 Intelligence 18 (23 after Illithid) Charisma 8 Read Spell Penetration Book! Max Intelligence at all levels! Pre-Epic Feats: SF/GSF Illusion, SF/GSF Necromancy, SF/GSF Evoc, SF/GSF Trans, SF/GSF Conj, Extend Epic Feats: Great Int 1-7, ESF x5, Empower Legendary Feats: L Spell Pen, Great Int 8, Great Int 9, LSF Illusion, LSF Necro, Epic Skill Focus Open Lock, LSF (Which should I take here?) Okay those are the builds, which should I go with? If pure I will take pixie for unlocking. Keep in mind, this is my first character so items will be of great value to me. If anyone has any improvements please do share  and can anyone calculate armor class, saves, etc for them? Thank you! Thanks! Ryu-Kishin |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 7:17:13 GMT
If you want to be sure to get all the loot / secrets in LL+ (level 40+) areas then you need to splash, the pixie is not good enough.
Splashing 1 rogue reduces your SP by 1, but for someone just starting out exploring who enjoys getting all the loot... not a big problem.
Epic skill focus sits on top of the +50 item cap, Legendary only works within it, i.e. only take legendary skill focus if you are sure you can't get to the +50 item cap with your intended gear set up. Only problem with gear based bonuses is if you have to swap out something with slots on it - this can be annoying if you have to re-pick spells when you swap back.
If you don't splash pally / bg (not worth it on this build) or take any saves feats, then saves will be rather weak, but probably ok for most
occasional LL. However, for an arcane in party that is not so bad, you just need to play smart and let the tanks take the agro first.
Your ac is dependent on gear available, but is potentially fine for pre-LL. Post 40 it will be near useless. However, you have LSF Illusion so you can get massive conceal from ethereal visage 80% even with a splash - that is your ac substitute.
It sounds to me like splash is good for you...
HTH
Lemo
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Post by hfb on Feb 16, 2013 9:02:04 GMT
If you are learning the mod, go rogue. It gets you more places and more stuff.
If you are exploring/soloing, I'd recommend LSF Conj for the improved gate. Being able to port about is key to doing some areas alone (toyshop comes to mind) and is a great way to maximize the usefulness of your trans wall. Orbs and summons are pretty sweet too.
Your pixie can't really search for you and there are many secrets to find. Many of them involve locked/trapped chests. Woot!
In addition to the -1 SR noted above, the razor's edge comes off most of your spells: that last die of dmg, that last bit of conceal, that last bit of soak, etc. This in my opinion costs more than the -1 SR. Many of the mod's equations are geometric where the top end bits are more significant than the bits previous, but not so much more significant that a bit less is useless. Rogue splash costs and is noticeable but is not a deal breaker.
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Post by Paradoom on Feb 16, 2013 9:24:13 GMT
As a wiz it is not as big of a deal to splash something like rouge in and the thids race is good for that. For a universal character that can do more then just blast through monsters, this works well. To max out your build try to get (yeah very hard I know) a casterlevel ego item (the dabblers) for wizzard. That way you level out the splash and have those nice toptier spellboni. It will work none the less.
For the feat take ESF Openlock since you cannot max that out otherwise (DEX based), and you need it. DT and Search are based on INT, so you should have no trouble at all to maximize that abilities. If you are able to hit the 50 skillpoints cap with gear you propably can even afford to not take full 63 base points in that last 2 skills (some mid low 50ish would be more then enough).
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Post by chirality on Feb 16, 2013 17:30:34 GMT
I'd second HFB and Para. Bottom line is that most players and most parties do find loot splash wiz to be overall a better investment. Like they said, what you "gain" is generally more than what you "lose". I will say that Pixie can perform certain duties at pre-LLs. One such duty is necessary to transition to LLs. Once in LLs, you likely won't be getting *that* much mileage out of your rogue abilities for quite a few levels. Thus, it's possible to go pure and then reinc to splash. Of course I'm not sure that the "benefits" of going 1-40 as pure, would make up for the xp loss from reinc. It's an option though, and would allow you to "taste both worlds" in a way. By going pure 1-40 and relying on pixie you don't miss much. In my experience lowbie secrets are very disappointing on the whole (I've done quite some searching with a friend for fun). Although, without giving too much away, I will say that there is a LOT of stuff to find in lowbie areas. I can't emphasize that enough  But after the thrill of finding it is gone, there is very low practical use--unlike LLs, there is no forging ingredients or anything like that. However, just like LLs, the random loot tends to really suck. From what I've seen upwards of 90% of the set loot is more or less useless. To give one example there is one map in which the secret area contains some "nifty" lowbie wizard gloves. (iirc something like one slot for levels 0-5). However for a toon that can survive in that area, these are crap. So unless you were to collect such gear and then transfer over to a brand-new toon (for rather ephemeral gains at that), it's more just for the fun of exploring. On the other hand this situation is more or less reversed for LLs, and secrets become even more important the later in the game you get. Anyway, I am not sure if there is much point to reinc in the manner I suggested, but I figure it's worth pointing out. Sorry big post Good luck. One last thing is that, disregarding "personal/solo power", you will be much more valuable to most parties with the ability to fill, or even partially fill, the role of searcher/picker. This in itself lends a lot to splash vs. pure. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 16, 2013 20:00:34 GMT
Splashes can interesting features:
Ranger - Access to Discipline and Search - Free GSF or ESF feat - Shield Proficiency
Monk - Wisdom Based AC - Access to Discipline and Tumble
Paladin - Access to Discipline - Shield Proficiency and Cha mod to all Saves
Rogue - Access to Tumble OL DT and Search (and UMD and Set Trap)
The are some in-game valuable items (CL Ego) that provide an Additional CL, making a "Wizard 39 / XXX 1" reach CL 60 for spells effects.
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Post by Ryu-Kishin on Feb 16, 2013 23:25:22 GMT
How can I set up the stats on Elf: Illithid to get a better con than 10 but to keep all the stats even? The only way I found out was to go:
STR9 DEX 16 CON11 WIS8 INT18 CHA8
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Post by chirality on Feb 17, 2013 2:05:56 GMT
Well if you don't splash for picking you can drop Dex for more Con (I would highly advise this on any other wiz, although that's just my opinion and I've heard other say the opposite).
I'm not sure off the top of my head how much Dex is needed for loot mage to have full picking ability. I've never made a high-level one myself and both KC and Kaezar's lootmage builds use Genie with 18 Dex at creation --> 20 after Genie, so I have no idea how this affects your toon. I'm sure you want it as high as possible though.
Why not drop Str?
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 13 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 8--> Str 7 and Con 12 after Illithid
I also like to keep even scores but Str is meaningless to you. This is the only desirable way I could find in char creation just now get higher Con without reducing Dex or Int.
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Post by desocupado on Feb 17, 2013 10:08:14 GMT
dex mod for picker...
63 +50 + dex mod + SF/ESF OL = 127
dex mod + SF/ESF OL = 14
Either he has Dex 18+14 +SF: OL or he will have to get ESF.
In which case Base Dex 4+14 and ESF OL will be enough.
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Post by Mudeye on Mar 12, 2013 21:14:22 GMT
If you go with a Rogue level, getting the 50 lock picking skill can require benefits from multiple gear items. At the same time you want to get Wizardy benefits from gear. If you end up having to switch gear to pick locks and then switch back for more spell casting it can mess up your spells. You might lose spell slots from slots on switched items or intelligence drop. The Skill Focus feats may be one way to help reduce the need for this. It's something to keep in mind when selecting feats and gear.
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and can anyone calculate armor class, saves, etc for them? Thank you!
But after the thrill of finding it is gone, there is very low practical use--unlike LLs, there is no forging ingredients or anything like that. However, just like LLs, the random loot tends to really suck. From what I've seen upwards of 90% of the set loot is more or less useless. To give one example there is one map in which the secret area contains some "nifty" lowbie wizard gloves. (iirc something like one slot for levels 0-5). However for a toon that can survive in that area, these are crap. So unless you were to collect such gear and then transfer over to a brand-new toon (for rather ephemeral gains at that), it's more just for the fun of exploring.
