The Dragon-Tank Ranger 21 / Druid 18 / Monk 1

[erevan]

I have created a new toon, going 4 Paladin / 1 Monk / 35 Druid.. trying some cast / breath / shift combo's


Besides. I have now brought that exotic dragon to 53 and something was strange about the AB, shown in the character sheet, !list AB and effective numbers when I attacked.





Char sheet: +78/+75/+72/+69/+66/+63
!list AB: +75/+72/+69/+66/+63/+60
Hit stuff: +90/+87/+84/+81/+78/+75/+72



Acc: -Erevan-
Char: Vy

Is this because of the +16 wisdom modifier?

[tomaan]

Feb 28, 2013 15:45:17 GMT erevan said:

Besides. I have now brought that exotic dragon to 53 and something was strange about the AB, shown in the character sheet, !list AB and effective numbers when I attacked.




Char sheet: +78/+75/+72/+69/+66/+63
!list AB: +75/+72/+69/+66/+63/+60
Hit stuff: +90/+87/+84/+81/+78/+75/+72



Acc: -Erevan-
Char: Vy

Is this because of the +16 wisdom modifier?

Char sheet is misleading -- it doesn't include all the custom AB bonus feats

!list AB is always accurate. In your screen, you aren't getting any enchantment bonus to AB (max is +20). If you had GMW or IOF, your effective "Hit Stuff" AB would be at/around 90.

Hope that helps!

On a side note -- (-2) size bonus seems odd....any vets know why/how?

[Torin]

I suspect the temporary modifier to AB is here +15 and it looks like it is not shown in !list AB. Maybe a polymorph thingy.

Dragons are huge, that is a size modifier to AB and AC of -2.

[desocupado]

1 extra attack and 1 AB isn't worth 3 CL in my opinion.

Also, each paladin level decreases your AC (shield) and AB (Str) due reduced Polymorph level.

[chirality]

Feb 28, 2013 17:20:30 GMT tomaan said:

!list AB is always accurate. In your screen, you aren't getting any enchantment bonus to AB (max is +20). If you had GMW or IOF, your effective "Hit Stuff" AB would be at/around 90.

Well, when he asked ingame first I advised him the common "char sheet lies--list ab is true" but obviously there remains an issue somewhere since his log AB is different from !list AB

(hence I advised him to post here and hopefully maybe someone more familiar with shifters than me, could explain the issue)

I think Torin offers the most reasonable explanation so far...I seemed to recall reading or hearing something in the past about !list ab not being accurate either, in certain cases, but I can't remember what these cases were or what the explanation was

something to do with the +wis/polymorph/etc sounds logical since his AB disparity does look to be +15

edit: fixed quote code

[redekbo]

So, I'm really new to the mod as well. My first character is also a druid/dragon tank. I've noticed that the !list ab does not include any attack bonus from your equipped weapon/gloves but that the bonus does show up in the combat log.

The other thing I can't figure out is whether or not armor type contributes to the shifted AC. Wiki says all attributes merge when shifted minus shield AC. Some of the builds posted include heavy armor proficiency to gain the additional AC from those armor types. However, !list AC does not show it once again. It always says base armor is zero. I'm guessing I need to do some more testing to see if the armor types affect shifted AC in the combat log.

[desocupado]

AC:
Base armor doesn't count, but armor AC bonus count (so wear a anything with +18/+20 Armor AC)
Shields adds no AC whatsoever (but they keep their other mods - alternatively you can use a flag - Mycho one has OC unarmed attacks)
- Shapes have their innate Shield AC (which is going to be 3-6 points lower than the wiki's value due that 4 level paladin splash - hint splash Ranger, as it doesn't decrease your Polymorph level and keep tier 1 BAB potential)

AB
Dragon's size is "Very Large", hence -2 AB (and AC)
Unarmed shapes doesn't show the weapon AB bonus even when they merge (that probably the source of this +15 difference)

Picture and text doesn't match
why did you put a different character in the picture?

Dragon damage
Breath DC is based in Wisdom Stat (And Legendary form focus dragon). The damage is CL*d10*(AE-20) (Druid+Shifter levels). Meaning it compares to level 9 spells both damage and DC-wise if you maximize Wisdom and Animal Empathy. Half that value (as enemies will make their reflex) make it effectively a CLd5 'spell" - however any kind of evasion will completely deny it.

Dragon Melee attacks doesn't merge weapon buffs. So on top of having lousy critical hits, any damage resistance will eat most of the elemental damage in your weapons (It's quite common for enemies to have at least 10- all elements).
For comparison, an adequate chosen and buffed DB weapon would have 6d12 (mean 36) elemental damage of 2 types the enemy would take.
You just lost nearly 48 damage per hit. (dragon are lousy for melee dps) - Not to mention you can't swap weapons quickly while morphed.

Melee damage
If you want to do unnarmed damage play a shifter with either Demonflesh golem shape (merge weapon buffs, have 1 extra attack and and wis mod to physical damage on top of having the same Str as a Dragon) or Leonal (merge weapon buffs, have 1 extra attack and very good AC on top of having the same Str as a Dragon).
This build's name wasn't entirely arbitrary Heavy Claws (Shifter 29 / Druid 10 / Monk 1) - it focus on unnarmed shape damage, you can opt for Wild + Construct + Dragon as shape focus.

Alternative make a caster that can morph (and tank/breath - but disregarding AB)
Anarch Dragon Druid (Druid 38 Paladin 1 Monk 1)

[redekbo]

desocupado,

Regarding the merging of weapon buffs.  In my short play-time I've observed that the weapon buffs do merge except for keen and any elemental bonus damage spells cast on the weapon.

Oh, and the on-hit mechanics don't seem to work either (this observance is only based off of one item, the meteor gloves with on-hit combust).

Is this what you meant?

[chirality]

I can't comment on the mechanics of shifter forms merging buffs

But I'm wondering what weapon buffs you refer to when you say they do work, just not bonus damage and keen?

Usually the phrase "weapon buffs" is a catchall referring to spells that provide bonus damage such as Caustic Weapon, Defeaning Clang, Fire Weapon, Shock Weapon, Darkfire, Cold Weapon, and keen and it's 2 HGE counterparts (for pierce and bludg weaps). In addition to the 5 ele dmg buffs there are also some "more specialized" exotic damage buffs which include Pariah MW (mag dmg), paladin Bless Weapon and BG Corrupt Weapon (div dmg), SD Shadow Rift (neg dmg) and ranger Bladethirst (pos dmg)

So it seems like you're saying that the weapon damage buffs, what we usually call "weap buffs" actually don't work? Which is the one that you find does work? GMW?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean in reference to the onhit mechanics not working...are you saying that the onhit from those gloves doesn't work period, or that it works but it doesn't "merge", i.e. it doesn't work in a shifted form?

[CataclysmicDeath]

Weap buffs do work in certain forms.

By wrap buffs I nan flame weap etc.

The forms are mainly the humanoid forms n 1 or 2 others. It's in the shifted documentation

Cata

[desocupado]

Mar 5, 2013 19:27:48 GMT redekbo said:

desocupado,

Regarding the merging of weapon buffs.  In my short play-time I've observed that the weapon buffs do merge except for keen and any elemental bonus damage spells cast on the weapon.

Oh, and the on-hit mechanics don't seem to work either (this observance is only based off of one item, the meteor gloves with on-hit combust).

Is this what you meant?

Exactly that, potentially 3x (+4d12) for each elemental and +2d12 for Div/Mag/Neg - without these buffs only level 50 weapons (they do 5d12 single Elemental and Exotic) and Abo weapons (3x 4d12) deal significant elemental damage outside physical.

Only GMW and keen work for Dragon... However some advanced fighting shapes get Flame Weapon and others as well (on otp of an extra attack per round at Legendary Form focus I):
Leonal (Outsider) Demonflesh Golem (Construct) Risen Lord (Undead) All 5 Humanoid shapes (Humanoid)

These "on hit" special effects don't work for any shape tough (nor does angel's charge hell's shield)
I believe that the "Wrap" (Divine power/Tenser) doesn't work because you "change shapes" (at least i tested this a long time ago and didn't get extra attacks)