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Post by pete on Mar 5, 2013 10:11:54 GMT
A few more thoughts, not big issues, just things I feel are worth drawing attention to:
druid XR - the cure poison on hit seems a bit wasted on a class with feat level poison immunity (the cure disease one looks awesome though) the half hell pens could be really nice depending on what areas will be considered outdoors, technically all of cania and map 1 and 3 of ness are not in buildings, so would they count?
cleric XR - the +1 DC to a single spell seems weak to me, ok it is above the current cap but even an extra SF would add +2 to an entire school within the current limit, just my thoughts how about +1 or +2 spell pen stacking with other sources or keep the +1DC and add auto extend gate spells on top?
PM XRs - could the genders be switched for one of these subs so that wiz PMs aren’t always male and sorc PMs always female?
A note about those who want separate subs for the current male/female suggestions. that would increase the pool of books and therefore the rarity of each type, I don’t know about the rest of you but based on current book rates and that funky says these will be even rarer, I think getting 2 (if you have toons capable of running the XR areas are you really going to redo all their xp and tags again?) of these XRs when they drop will take months if not years, so it’s going to be a call between even harder to get what you want, vs appearance..... tough call (I am undecided on this matter just wanted to bring it up)
AA XR - there are plenty of AAs that don’t monk splash for AC, so the +4 wis is mostly wasted on them, could this be swapped with the +2 con so all AA builds benefit more (and still keeping a +2 wis for those who do splash), also being elf the current +2 con is really +0 after base race the 90% ranged concealment seems weak to me, there aren’t that many ranged attacks to take advantage of it, the usefulness of this will be affected by how many ranged attack monsters there will be in the XR areas, even then AAs arnt on the frontline so the IA archers usually go after the toons at the front
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 16:03:43 GMT
A note about those who want separate subs for the current male/female suggestions. that would increase the pool of books and therefore the rarity of each type, I don’t know about the rest of you but based on current book rates and that funky says these will be even rarer, I think getting 2 (if you have toons capable of running the XR areas are you really going to redo all their xp and tags again?) of these XRs when they drop will take months if not years, so it’s going to be a call between even harder to get what you want, vs appearance..... tough call (I am undecided on this matter just wanted to bring it up I don't want separate subs for the male/female that differ only very slightly. I would like it to be incorporated as part of PC scry only at 0(or 1) xp.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 17:59:29 GMT
I was at a very boring course today - came up with some name suggestions:-
HUMAN
Bard Human XR - LILLEND Sorc Human XR - SAVANT Wiz Human XR – ASTRAL SEER Ploder Human XR – VOID TREADER Turner Human XR - LUMINARY BFM/DSM Human XR – DRAGON-HEARTED Herald Human XR – WEATHER WOVEN Shifter Human XR – MIRROR SOULED LT Human XR - LIFEDRINKER CS RNG Str Human XR – DEAD EYED ZEN Human XR – ICE-BLOODED Str2 Human XR - BRALANI WM Human XR - GHAELE Staffy Human XR – HALF-PLANATAR
DWARF
Warchanter Dwarf XR – STONE SINGER MNK Dwarf XR – RUNEMASTER SD Dwarf Para SD XR – DARK MARKED DD Dwarf XR – IRON-BONED RDD Dwarf XR – WYRM-TIED
HALF-ELF
Druid Half-Elf XR - ANCESTRIAL BClr Half-Elf XR – CHOSEN AVATAR BK Half-Elf XR – DEATH-TOUCHED Lash Half-Elf XR – DEMON-SCARRED (male) Lash Half-Elf XR – DEMON-SCARRED (female) Str/Div/Large Half-Elf Large giant dude XR - DREADNOUGHT (size change) Str/Div Half-Elf - Male XR – SOLARBORN (male) Dex/Div Half-Elf - Female XR – SOLARBORN (female) BG Half-Elf XR – VAMPIRE (appearance change) Rapier Wit Half-Elf Wit XR - BEGUILER Intuitive attack Half-Elf XR - HAUNT Dex2 Half-Elf XR – CAT-WRACKED
GNOME
PM - Plate Gnome Male XR – DAEMONKIN (male) SorcPM - Plate Gnome XR – DAEMONKIN (female) SorcPM - Robes Elf XR – NAGA BRED Pariah Gnome XR – PECH LORD Gnomish Inventor Gnome XR - CIRCUITED Str BFM/DSM Gnome XR – FAVOURED OF TIAMAT (seemed to fit)
ELF
Theurge Elf XR – LOREWARDEN (female) Theurge Elf XR – LOREWARDEN (male) SL Elf XR - TEMPESTIAN CS RNG Dex Elf XR – GROVEWOOD GUARDIAN AA Elf XR – STAR FORGED Dex1 Elf XR - GRUGACH Uni2 Elf undying again XR - ASCENDED PM - Robes (or reg loot wiz) Elf Male XR - DREADLING
HALFLING
Dex Asn Halfling XR - NIGHT WALKER Slinger Halfling XR – ELEVEN FINGERED ROG Halfling XR – SILVER SOULED Uni1 Halfling XR – SPIRIT BITTEN
HALF-ORC
Barb Half-Orc XR - MINDRAGED Str Asn Half-Orc XR – HALF-ELDAR Str1 Half-Orc XR - COLOSSUS
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Post by simpetar on Mar 5, 2013 22:01:33 GMT
Sorry to stray slightly off topic, but... XR Uni: Halfling +9 Str +5 Dex -2 Con -4 Wis SF/ESF Ride, +20 Ride, True KD Immunity. Did I miss something awesome about Ride skill, besides qualifying for PDK?
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Mar 5, 2013 22:13:43 GMT
Sorry to stray slightly off topic, but... XR Uni: Halfling +9 Str +5 Dex -2 Con -4 Wis SF/ESF Ride, +20 Ride, True KD Immunity. Did I miss something awesome about Ride skill, besides qualifying for PDK? Absolutely necessary for taming wild creatures, such as pit fiends, and riding them into battle! You need to hotkey the new ride ability icon from the last HGE. Using it then will trigger a Ride check vs the target's resistance to being ridden like a (potentially small) horse. You cannot ride creatures smaller or equal in size category. You cannot ride creatures more than two size categories larger. Characters riding creatures gain half of the ridden creature's immunities, resistances, and damage capabilities. Ridden creatures retain only their on-hit effects. Came out back in Christmas, don't you remember?
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Post by Fade on Mar 5, 2013 22:51:43 GMT
Sorry to stray slightly off topic, but... Did I miss something awesome about Ride skill, besides qualifying for PDK? Absolutely necessary for taming wild creatures, such as pit fiends, and riding them into battle! You need to hotkey the new ride ability icon from the last HGE. Using it then will trigger a Ride check vs the target's resistance to being ridden like a (potentially small) horse. You cannot ride creatures smaller or equal in size category. You cannot ride creatures more than two size categories larger. Characters riding creatures gain half of the ridden creature's immunities, resistances, and damage capabilities. Ridden creatures retain only their on-hit effects. Came out back in Christmas, don't you remember? LOL! Is it april already? Time sure flies.
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Post by chirality on Mar 5, 2013 23:06:20 GMT
Damage capabilities = what exactly?
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Post by Werehound Silverfang on Mar 6, 2013 2:48:59 GMT
e.g. Pitfiends to 10d20 fire damage on hit, you gain a bonus 5d20!
It's not real beeteedubs
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Post by chirality on Mar 6, 2013 3:56:02 GMT
That was cruel! Maybe not unusual though
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Mar 6, 2013 7:56:17 GMT
Judging by stat splits uni tanks will either be extremely difficult to make (for most classes) for the new areas, or be pointless. Is the slotting of most into either str or dex builds deliberate? My current zen ranger (elf zenythri) is very close to a uni tank (str and dex), and the only real race option for a minor upgrade is actually the intuitiave attack race, at the cost of fast searching. And now especially with less than ideal groups, being able to tank in many areas of the game seems to be worth far more than 1 or 2 DC. I may post more suggestions once I've had more time to think on this
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Post by hfb on Mar 6, 2013 16:16:07 GMT
Greetings, First, *DROOL* (beautiful and appreciated work. 'nuff sed) Second, regarding names, I wish I could contribute more, but in any case, there is a great resource available for racial names: forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Inhabitants_by_raceMany of the entries invite drilling down. Third, while I would love to see additional sneak dice on the rogue race even as part of a rebalanceing project, I don't really see XRs as the way to go about taking care of balance issues. That is not to say that the XRs shouldn't serve to exacerbate known balance issues. As long as the same general metric is applied to the creation of the XRs, we could probably expect continued and perhaps slightly greater imbalance (advantages tend to accrue) but adding another moving part to an already complex set of variables might just make it more difficult to manage. Finally, fixing balance by way of races only addresses the issue of balance in a piecemeal fashion, i.e. only for those playing XR toons and only vis-a-vis other XR toons. Fourth: Gnome Bard XR Caster/Support Bard: Gnome +2 Dex, +4 Int, +2 Wis, +6 Chr, Lingering Song (10x duration), Artist, Curse Song and... Option 1: auto-refresh on bard song as on GMW (but not maintained post-death); Option 2: larger AoE curse song Option 3: shorter cast time on curse song (though waiting for the hammer to fall for way too long and then surviving is a rush I have to admit) Option 4: adjust heal skill equation for Healing Circle/MCSW upwards and/or increase AoE Option 5: Bardsong reduces Hell penalties by one and Curse song imposes them by one Option 6: some of the SF: Illusion run of feats (more vanilla and not so 'special,' but probably welcome anyway)
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Post by chirality on Mar 6, 2013 19:13:30 GMT
Third, while I would love to see additional sneak dice on the rogue race even as part of a rebalanceing project, I don't really see XRs as the way to go about taking care of balance issues. That is not to say that the XRs shouldn't serve to exacerbate known balance issues. As long as the same general metric is applied to the creation of the XRs, we could probably expect continued and perhaps slightly greater imbalance (advantages tend to accrue) but adding another moving part to an already complex set of variables might just make it more difficult to manage. Finally, fixing balance by way of races only addresses the issue of balance in a piecemeal fashion, i.e. only for those playing XR toons and only vis-a-vis other XR toons. Very very well said +1 and I cannot emphasize enough how much I agree here and really do not want to see serious class balance issues go ignored just because if you have the proper XR it might be fixed This already has happened with paragon levels/related updates in certain cases, and in at least one case (fighter) it backfired hugely, and with wizard it didn't backfire as badly but made things worse by giving an excuse not to improve other things
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Post by vulp on Mar 6, 2013 21:11:21 GMT
Option 1: auto-refresh on bard song as on GMW (but not maintained post-death); Nope not good if it' not an optional feature. Automation cannot tell if song is best option in some situations and can mess things up. Option 2: larger AoE curse song Abyss armor already does this and would make that armor useless and echoes more valuable again. Option 3: shorter cast time on curse song (though waiting for the hammer to fall for way too long and then surviving is a rush I have to admit) Curse song is pretty fast atm if used right, don't see much benefit from this one. Option 4: adjust heal skill equation for Healing Circle/MCSW upwards and/or increase AoE +1 for this one. Option 5: Bardsong reduces Hell penalties by one and Curse song imposes them by one Probably op. At least if it stacks.
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Post by The_Brute on Mar 7, 2013 4:21:43 GMT
I would love to see the XR Dwarven Warchanter sub race to be looked at again. No charisma bonus really hurts on a race that has lowered charisma to begin with. Maybe something along the lines of:
This battle hardened race is among the elite. The quickness and power is among something never seen before. Their abilities are phenomenal, as is their singing prowess!
(The race gets the basic chanter feats, good stat spread for the class. The idea behind the physical and elemental resists are that the race is battle hardened so they learned the basics of defense. Was thinking of adding one more ability like levitation or water breathing or gain an extra 2 skill points per level of bard/dwd taken. Something along those lines but I want this to be considered and not overpowered)
Base Race: DWARF Made For: DWARVEN WARCHANTER +4 Charisma +6 Strength +6 Dexterity Still Spell, Dodge, Toughness, Artist Immunity: 10% Physical Immunity: 10% Elemental
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Post by chirality on Mar 7, 2013 4:56:38 GMT
You know I have to say the XR WC sub looks pretty unspectacular to me also
Stats look more like a weak BUR, and yeah what's up with no +Cha? Yes WC isn't exactly hugely Cha reliant but still would be nice to AT LEAST not retain a negative modifier after XR sub applied...
I think Brute goes a bit overboard...I mean it's not THAT bad and those suggestions are a bit over the top
I don't think at least +2 Cha would be overpowered though
Edit: I missed the other +4 (for +4 all 3 phys stats), yeah after looking back it doesn't look too bad at all
Not sure it needs too much more help using other subs as a comparison
Brute if you think it looks too weak take a look at some others such as the bard, looks fairly even to me
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