Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 10, 2013 6:23:29 GMT
Here's the new google doc link:
Click Me
It features all the original info from Shard's sheet, including his comments, which may help shed some additional light on what he was thinking.
All edits are highlighted in bright red. Struck-through items will need replacements, in many cases - especially the specials. I made many of your suggested edits, as well as some of my own.
All potentially problematic stats are highlighted in bright orange. I took issue with Shard's abilities for Half-Orcs, in particular, since they neglect the concept of a dump stat, assuming that Bioware's distros are flawed to start.
The 'Favored of Pariah's' extra one per level regen seems way too powerful to me - moreso than the other orange-highlighted items.
The ability scores are a bit tricky. I've made some obvious edits, but some questions remain. If we were to follow Shard's Undying scaling on other BURs that total 12 because they had very flat, spead-out abilities, we would probably peg those subs (like WC) at 16 total rather than 14 (I'm talking about subs with no ability score raised by 6 or more). At least one will depend on what special we settle on - True KD immunity was just silly.
We still need quite a few names - I used all the ones from the other thread that seemed appropriate and specific enough to the milieu.
What follows is some specific responses to some of you from the previous thread. I only picked the ones where I thought it was important to make a point - in most cases, I either just made the edit you suggested, or discarded it.
Turner race is absolutely amazing(thanks) barring the penalty to dex (which is odd because it's the ONLY caster that can't afford to raise dex to 14 at start creation due to their other ability spread needs, widening the gap even further).
It still looks to me like the current configuration would be worth more than 4 wis 8 cha, which is the alternative, given the higher point cost of the higher numbers. If this isn't the case, please elaborate.
Atm XR Cleric race > XR Druid race for druids (Levitation > Waterbreathing, can't measure the utility of half hell pens on outdoor maps because there are none yet.
There are DOZENS of outdoor hell pens maps already, with lots more on the way.
DexAssn - Need a slight spice to open up builds (Monk splash is a must have, leaving fighter, BG, rogue and ranger as alternatives)
Adjusting Wisdom +2 (Charisma -2) would help a bit with Will save and Monk splash. Could use Favored Class Monk instead of Rogue as well.
Seems like that'd hurt the BG option. Thoughts?
StrLarge: 95% or more of all Clerics have Girding so this would have to stack to be useful. Maybe add +6 to +8 Shield modifier to weapon wielded if not using a shield and no Monk levels. Some way to access listen would be nice too...+4 CHR mod would suggest use as a CoT/BG/Pally that don't get listen as a skill.
Can you be more specific about ways to access listen?
EDIT - on a side note what builds are the gnome PM XRs with cleave and +5 hide ment for?
Sounds like BG splash to me.
Changeling Female: Human +2 Dex +6 Wis +6 Int +2 Con Extend Spell, Spell Pen, G.Spell Pen, Waterbreathing, Levitation, +10 CArmor/Concentration Can change appearance 1 time only per current Doppleganger rules.
Changeling Male: Human +6 Str +6 Dex +2 Int +2 Con Toughness, Blooded, Exotic Prof, Waterbreathing, Levitation, +10 CArmor/CWeapon Can change appearance 1 time only per curent Doppleganger rules.
Fairly generic templates with blah stuff that you'd likely take on any toon...
KE.
I'm not super-eager to do anything requiring more DM work.
I know this isn't the place for it but the fact that sorc enjoys some really "unfair" advantages with existing loot is just not right and needs to be corrected, I know asking to go back and "even the field" with a hundred existing items is asking too much but we could at least start off the new EE/XR era with a clean slate
This viewpoint fails to look at the long run. Sorc/wiz power fluctuates. Sorcs are currently on top, but lose ground every time we release more spells, which is why we deliberately put them on top when doing paragon levels. I have no interest in attempting to push the balance back towards wizzies via subraces.
Yes, uni builds will be more difficult to pull off, by design.
Monk: if going with one race for "all" monks, it makes sense to me to go with WS/EWS for goad, nun, kama in addition to UA. The fisters could be given some stunning fist feats so that they stay special in light of giving up their gloves gear slot.
That's kind of an absurd number of total feats. Can't think of an alternative? Maybe a second subby?
Rogue: love, love, love the internal dmg! Blooded (LSA-disc enabler) would fix a lot of rogue build problems. The ESFs seem like overkill and Sneak Attack feats or other rogue specific feats (opp, cs, slippery mind) might yield more cohesiveness for rogues.
I changed Internal to irresistable - slightly more powerful, but implementable. As for Blooded, see Shard's remarks about avoiding LSA enablers, though that's definitely a possibility I'm willing to entertain. Can you elaborate?
Thanks!
Funky
Click Me
It features all the original info from Shard's sheet, including his comments, which may help shed some additional light on what he was thinking.
All edits are highlighted in bright red. Struck-through items will need replacements, in many cases - especially the specials. I made many of your suggested edits, as well as some of my own.
All potentially problematic stats are highlighted in bright orange. I took issue with Shard's abilities for Half-Orcs, in particular, since they neglect the concept of a dump stat, assuming that Bioware's distros are flawed to start.
The 'Favored of Pariah's' extra one per level regen seems way too powerful to me - moreso than the other orange-highlighted items.
The ability scores are a bit tricky. I've made some obvious edits, but some questions remain. If we were to follow Shard's Undying scaling on other BURs that total 12 because they had very flat, spead-out abilities, we would probably peg those subs (like WC) at 16 total rather than 14 (I'm talking about subs with no ability score raised by 6 or more). At least one will depend on what special we settle on - True KD immunity was just silly.
We still need quite a few names - I used all the ones from the other thread that seemed appropriate and specific enough to the milieu.
What follows is some specific responses to some of you from the previous thread. I only picked the ones where I thought it was important to make a point - in most cases, I either just made the edit you suggested, or discarded it.
Mar 4, 2013 0:47:01 GMT @laser said:
Turner race is absolutely amazing(thanks) barring the penalty to dex (which is odd because it's the ONLY caster that can't afford to raise dex to 14 at start creation due to their other ability spread needs, widening the gap even further).
It still looks to me like the current configuration would be worth more than 4 wis 8 cha, which is the alternative, given the higher point cost of the higher numbers. If this isn't the case, please elaborate.
Mar 4, 2013 0:47:01 GMT @laser said:
Atm XR Cleric race > XR Druid race for druids (Levitation > Waterbreathing, can't measure the utility of half hell pens on outdoor maps because there are none yet.
There are DOZENS of outdoor hell pens maps already, with lots more on the way.
DexAssn - Need a slight spice to open up builds (Monk splash is a must have, leaving fighter, BG, rogue and ranger as alternatives)
Adjusting Wisdom +2 (Charisma -2) would help a bit with Will save and Monk splash. Could use Favored Class Monk instead of Rogue as well.
Seems like that'd hurt the BG option. Thoughts?
StrLarge: 95% or more of all Clerics have Girding so this would have to stack to be useful. Maybe add +6 to +8 Shield modifier to weapon wielded if not using a shield and no Monk levels. Some way to access listen would be nice too...+4 CHR mod would suggest use as a CoT/BG/Pally that don't get listen as a skill.
Can you be more specific about ways to access listen?
Mar 4, 2013 18:47:50 GMT pete said:
EDIT - on a side note what builds are the gnome PM XRs with cleave and +5 hide ment for?
Sounds like BG splash to me.
Idea for players that love how they look...
Changeling Female: Human +2 Dex +6 Wis +6 Int +2 Con Extend Spell, Spell Pen, G.Spell Pen, Waterbreathing, Levitation, +10 CArmor/Concentration Can change appearance 1 time only per current Doppleganger rules.
Changeling Male: Human +6 Str +6 Dex +2 Int +2 Con Toughness, Blooded, Exotic Prof, Waterbreathing, Levitation, +10 CArmor/CWeapon Can change appearance 1 time only per curent Doppleganger rules.
Fairly generic templates with blah stuff that you'd likely take on any toon...
KE.
I'm not super-eager to do anything requiring more DM work.
I know this isn't the place for it but the fact that sorc enjoys some really "unfair" advantages with existing loot is just not right and needs to be corrected, I know asking to go back and "even the field" with a hundred existing items is asking too much but we could at least start off the new EE/XR era with a clean slate
This viewpoint fails to look at the long run. Sorc/wiz power fluctuates. Sorcs are currently on top, but lose ground every time we release more spells, which is why we deliberately put them on top when doing paragon levels. I have no interest in attempting to push the balance back towards wizzies via subraces.
Judging by stat splits uni tanks will either be extremely difficult to make (for most classes) for the new areas, or be pointless. Is the slotting of most into either str or dex builds deliberate?
Yes, uni builds will be more difficult to pull off, by design.
Mar 9, 2013 15:17:37 GMT hfb said:
Monk: if going with one race for "all" monks, it makes sense to me to go with WS/EWS for goad, nun, kama in addition to UA. The fisters could be given some stunning fist feats so that they stay special in light of giving up their gloves gear slot.
That's kind of an absurd number of total feats. Can't think of an alternative? Maybe a second subby?
Mar 9, 2013 15:17:37 GMT hfb said:
Rogue: love, love, love the internal dmg! Blooded (LSA-disc enabler) would fix a lot of rogue build problems. The ESFs seem like overkill and Sneak Attack feats or other rogue specific feats (opp, cs, slippery mind) might yield more cohesiveness for rogues.
I changed Internal to irresistable - slightly more powerful, but implementable. As for Blooded, see Shard's remarks about avoiding LSA enablers, though that's definitely a possibility I'm willing to entertain. Can you elaborate?
Thanks!
Funky