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Post by Li'l Rose on Mar 5, 2015 19:02:10 GMT
Being one who mostly plays the small races, I would love to see some improvements to them.
I think gnome is fine at the moment, with 2 free skill points, and good subrace options for strength or dex toons, as well as plenty of caster options.
Halflings do not get much at all, and the subraces are mostly made for rogues, assassins, and slingers. The only options for a strength build are to use one of the 'any' subraces. I do have a Halfling zeny strength barbarian, which is demi now, and does pretty well. However to get a good ab, I had to put less dex, so she routinely gets tossed by males.
Would be nice to see more strength build options for halflings, and if it is possible, give them a free +4 to dex checks, if they have a certain amount of strength.
Would also be nice to see more one-handed staff type items for small race casters. While there are some already, most require certain hell tags to use. Only the sorcerer fan is usable by lower level toons.
These are just my thoughts though, and I still enjoy the server, despite the lack of love for halflings.
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Post by Yojimbo on Mar 6, 2015 13:40:16 GMT
Males favorite pastime is the halfling toss.
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Post by chirality on Mar 6, 2015 18:47:53 GMT
Would also be nice to see more one-handed staff type items for small race casters. While there are some already, most require certain hell tags to use. Only the sorcerer fan is usable by lower level toons. There's dachy, dulv, and UR/BUR fashion accessory in addition to the hell ones. I think the issue is more one of quality than quantity; I dunno what more new ones could really be made, but the existing ones suck compared to staffs. I dunno why this is, but it makes little if any sense to me (best guess balance-wise is that small casters receive the bonus +1 size ac but that's hardly such a huge boost as to deserve getting the shaft gearwise--this would really be great to fix cuz i fail to see any possible harm in upgrading the fashion accessories) It's true that fashion accessory equivalents rare 20/29/35 staff do not exist (afaik? never found one anyway). This would be a nice addition.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 6, 2015 21:27:45 GMT
It's true that fashion accessory equivalents rare 20/29/35 staff do not exist (afaik? never found one anyway). This would be a nice addition. True. On the other hand i like "fan of fates". I'd guess small people's caster item were meant for splashing. Maybe they need a boost.
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Post by desocupado on Jan 20, 2016 16:46:04 GMT
Being small add +1 AC and +1 AB. Its good in particularly for dexers. Who in return have worse weapon choices for critical damage. (It kind of make you make a full sneak attack small sized morning star in two hands wielder Str Rogue) Casters suffer from the lack of quality in gear options as rose pointed. Well +1 AC/AB is pretty useful, that why I said only a small buff was required.
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Post by woqued on Jul 27, 2019 12:11:39 GMT
Zombified thread bump. Recently wanted to create a new character I haven't done before after having been a while since I last made one, but unfortunately ran into the good old Listen issue - subrace of choice not a Half-Elf? Check. Class of choice doesn't have listen? Check.
Nevermind. Didn't want to diversify my character repertoire anyway.
Ideas to help build diversity out a bit: Blindfight as pre-req feat for LSA:Listen. This would help all the right classes that could use some help, or ones that are boring to build and subraces that are meh only because they aren't Half-Elves, and Half-Elf subraces are good even without the LSA:Listen perk, yet more exciting to classes with listen as class skill (if their advantage is changed to something else less tied to Listen/Spot) - and Half-Elves would essentially turn into 1 free feat (skip taking BF if no change implemented) instead of being mandatory for listen-less melee classes.. Perhaps their "can take lsa:listen" would just be Blind Fight, and they'd still get the LSA:Spot that I presume not many take.
If it's too boring as a "less versatile Human" post-change, you could give them some boon to fix this newfound gap. One way to approach it could be taking their +1 skill point and "free" LSA:Listen, but making them start at 10 base intellect, giving them unique attraction to classes that really want to invest in a variety of skills available to those classes. ... The biggest issue with this change would be Genie wizards and the oddity of wizard subraces not being half-elves... But not sure that's a huge issue, XR wizards would still draw ahead of Half-elven genies due to sheer amount of feats, so it's not a GLARING issue. Anyway, just an option, there are other viable ones.
... And with the amount of concealment/durability endgame mobs have, don't say Listen isn't mandatory to anyone who wants a character that ... is let's say competitive, giving up that much offensive prowess for flavour is not fun at all. Limbo just made listen even more important than before.
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Post by Tru3Fals3 on Jul 27, 2019 15:43:28 GMT
Zombified thread bump. Recently wanted to create a new character I haven't done before after having been a while since I last made one, but unfortunately ran into the good old Listen issue - subrace of choice not a Half-Elf? Check. Class of choice doesn't have listen? Check. Nevermind. Didn't want to diversify my character repertoire anyway. Ideas to help build diversity out a bit: Blindfight as pre-req feat for LSA:Listen. This would help all the right classes that could use some help, or ones that are boring to build and subraces that are meh only because they aren't Half-Elves, and Half-Elf subraces are good even without the LSA:Listen perk, yet more exciting to classes with listen as class skill (if their advantage is changed to something else less tied to Listen/Spot) - and Half-Elves would essentially turn into 1 free feat (skip taking BF if no change implemented) instead of being mandatory for listen-less melee classes.. Perhaps their "can take lsa:listen" would just be Blind Fight, and they'd still get the LSA:Spot that I presume not many take. If it's too boring as a "less versatile Human" post-change, you could give them some boon to fix this newfound gap. One way to approach it could be taking their +1 skill point and "free" LSA:Listen, but making them start at 10 base intellect, giving them unique attraction to classes that really want to invest in a variety of skills available to those classes. ... The biggest issue with this change would be Genie wizards and the oddity of wizard subraces not being half-elves... But not sure that's a huge issue, XR wizards would still draw ahead of Half-elven genies due to sheer amount of feats, so it's not a GLARING issue. Anyway, just an option, there are other viable ones. ... And with the amount of concealment/durability endgame mobs have, don't say Listen isn't mandatory to anyone who wants a character that ... is let's say competitive, giving up that much offensive prowess for flavour is not fun at all. Limbo just made listen even more important than before. recently ran into the exact same problem, trying to make something a little out of the ordinary, did the entire build and everything worked but had forgot about the old req for lsa listen which kills the whole build. this change would open up a few more interesting tank builds and make some more races viable and competitive.
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Post by woqued on Jul 27, 2019 16:43:00 GMT
Myep.. well, while its not ENTIRELY out of order to do a 43 skill toon or an elven variant, get SF ESF and probably invest in wisdom while at it, but it still feels so artificial and bleh.. And it's completely unnecessary. The guys that need help would get some (like some unnamed evil quasiclasses), and the guys who are at the top are unaffected (hey ftrs, rngrs, lashes & co). It's really quite easy to reach the +50 cap outside penalties, and hard to get above that to combat penalties, so the 20 points really matter quite a lot and again, the classes most hurt by these things are the ones who could use some help anyway.
The guys who don't need help IF THEY ARE HALF-ELVEN or Elven -- battleclerics, paladins, lash, CoT.. Currently the best subraces for those would be half-elven anyway for many divines since that's the way subraces seem to have been spread around, on these artificial limitations on listen. Hey! Non-Half-Elf [insert class] sucks! So we'll just put those subs there. If theres another outside half-elves, it has that "qualifies for LSA:Listen". Might just as well open more oppourtunities across the board and give those less used subraces and (quasi)classes more freedom in building, especially with the very rare yet so friggin numerous XR subraces in the mix.
.. And since the whole listen/concealment thing is of HG making, there are no lore issues either afaik?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 7, 2019 2:22:45 GMT
Still reading with interest. Had some discussion last year regarding new qualifier feat.
Funky
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Post by arek on Aug 7, 2019 9:58:38 GMT
The qualifier feat doesn't necessarily need to be new - Half-elf gets a racial feat that grants a bonus to spot and listen. If it's not already, make this feat the prereq, then add it to the options for a level 1 feat swap (and allow it to be taken at level 1 for people using preloaders). This partially solves the tank-listen issue (many tanks still need to take other qualifiers at level 1, tho, so this is getting really, really clogged up here). There's still an issue with skills for some tank builds which will tend to funnel them into human/gnome/helf races, but this would certainly open up more races to be viable for tank builds. -- arek
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