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Post by Paradoom on Apr 27, 2013 17:06:11 GMT
Hmm those boots are hardly used by anyone and have little use as they are. Looking at them I noticed that they have the two weapon fighting feat. Considering the low AC and the few imms it grants, it would be an interesting change to them to have the improved two weapon fighting. This would make them interesting to use and with the lowered ac not realy at a low price to use.
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Post by chirality on Apr 27, 2013 18:14:36 GMT
It's interesting you post this since in last week or 2 I have been also considering posting about a few BUR items I see that are pretty useless.
I agree about the Shadow Pads. If you don't mind I will also mention 2-3 other "generic" (and I think very old) BURs that I think are in the same boat in terms of not being very useful in relation to other BURs of the same slot.
I will say though, the shadow pads I thought were designed for SD, hence the low dodge AC (SD doesn't miss it), if used by SD they aren't "too" bad I guess.
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Post by arek on Apr 27, 2013 18:54:55 GMT
I, too, think that itwf would be an interesting addition to these boots....but they would likely need to get the same "dexers-only" requirement the gloves have, for balance reasons.
--Arek
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Post by chirality on Apr 27, 2013 18:59:57 GMT
It's definitely true that merely TWF is pretty worthless, to anyone and everyone.
This should either be improved to ITWF or removed entirely in favor of a more useful prop/improvement to existing props.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 27, 2013 19:03:41 GMT
I will say though, the shadow pads I thought were designed for SD, hence the low dodge AC (SD doesn't miss it), if used by SD they aren't "too" bad I guess. Bingo. Same concept as druid ammys with low nat AC, etc. Funky
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Post by Paradoom on Apr 28, 2013 12:13:56 GMT
that still leaves the thing with the ITWF open.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 29, 2013 2:44:48 GMT
that still leaves the thing with the ITWF open. Well sure, other than the fact that it blew apart your major rationale for the edit: If you want to persuade me to edit something, you need to display a little more understanding of the things you're making suggestions about. The fact that the boots aren't used by many classes doesn't say much about their value, since they're designed for exactly one class. Unless you want to argue that there shouldn't be class-tailored items, for whatever reason (don't bother, seriously ). The question is, of what value are they to the class they're meant for? Funky
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Post by Paradoom on Apr 29, 2013 9:36:01 GMT
Well what I have in mind is rather adding some more Items with that feat for granting a second attack in the offhand, if you want to dualwield. Atm only one Item at all provides that feat as far as I know. For a strength tank, this would mean quite the AC drop, so not easy to fit in or use at all. Or just restricted them to dexers completely. For dexers it could free up feats and allow some more build flexibility. Esp. rouges and also shadowdancers (for what they are designed for) could profit from that greatly, since it doesn't look like they will be getting any damage boost anyway. But a second attack in the offhand can compensate that a bit and could help to make such classes a bit more popular again.
And (to be a bit sarcastic) just look at all those rouges and sds that are swarming on the servers each day...
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Post by Raj on Apr 29, 2013 10:23:14 GMT
that still leaves the thing with the ITWF open. The question is, of what value are they to the class they're meant for? Funky Quite little, as shadowdancers, like most tanks who don't rely on EV/monk conceal, wear breach boots most of the time. The pads don't provide anything unique and elemental dr can easily be covered with cloaks (in comparison, wearing breach cloak and pads instead of corruption and breach boots means -10% phis imm before randomization). Anything unique on those boots would at least provide a choice.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 29, 2013 17:57:11 GMT
And (to be a bit sarcastic) just look at all those rouges and sds that are swarming on the servers each day... That's an issue of class balance, not really relevant to the boots. It's also why SDs just got the DR-dropping bump. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 29, 2013 17:57:59 GMT
Quite little, as shadowdancers, like most tanks who don't rely on EV/monk conceal, wear breach boots most of the time. The pads don't provide anything unique and elemental dr can easily be covered with cloaks (in comparison, wearing breach cloak and pads instead of corruption and breach boots means -10% phis imm before randomization). Anything unique on those boots would at least provide a choice. So whatever it is would have to compete with breach boots. Any suggestions other than ITWF? Funky
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Post by Raj on Apr 29, 2013 18:32:12 GMT
Raise sneaks to 5d6, add listen and parry skill boost.
Imo ITWF was a neat idea anyway.
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Post by Paradoom on Apr 29, 2013 19:29:19 GMT
As I see it you want to even out the tanks more, and with this I am handing out an idea for that. I´m not making that suggestion just because I feel like it, and try to consider what it does overall. And as Rajah and me pointed out, it aint a priceless item to use (either less physical imm, or less AC), but could make it an interesting choice (dexer specific as I suggested) compared to the usual. This would also help dexers to improve their attackrate (restricted to them) to get on a more even ground with strength tanks. And I cannot see it out of balance, especially if I compare them to other bur gear, and what kind of characters would profit from it. And seeing, that they aint even being used by the class they were meant for, make them a good target for a change. Even if you absolutly want them to stay class specific, that change would still work for the SDs at least.
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Post by Yojimbo on Apr 29, 2013 19:52:27 GMT
This reminds me of another pair of boots I am wondering who they are intended to be used by. The toyshop boots give next to nothing besides bonus attack and +10 Dodge AC this makes them farm more limited in the AC department, especially when penalties come into play, and the bonus attacks do not stack with SD and other bonuses as I understand it. You say the low AC of the Shadow Pads was becuase it was for SDs so who are the Clockwork boots for if they don't work with SD yet have low AC that primarily a class like SD can overcome? I know this is slight thread hijack but seems relevant.
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Post by chirality on Apr 29, 2013 20:10:13 GMT
I thought the low AC on clockwork boots was intended as a balancing mechanism since originally these boots were actually fairly powerful for a beginner LL run loot?
Maybe they aren't used much nowadays but I remember at one time they were fairly common on tanks. I guess the trend has been to just go HS splash now.
I dunno, I haven't been around that long but I definitely remember always seeing people talking about using the clock boots at one point, both ingame and in builds etc on forums here, usually as an "option" kit for swapping them on to boost DPS when there wasn't much to lose.
I guess for a long time now the trend has been to just go HS if you're building a tank that can benefit from the extra attack. HS splash is pretty stacked and has definitely contributed to some very very powerful builds, whereas clock boots are as you say completely useless other than the extra attack so it's a much greater sacrifice in terms of gearslot--moliated HS boots are really nice. It's cheaper to make a sacrifice of a few levels rather than sacrifice a slot seems to be the rationale, and HS splash works perfect for the classes that stand to gain the most (#1 barb), without losing too much from -5 CC levels.
My feeling was that like a lot of other "dated" loots, clock boots are from a different era where the environment was a lot different. There's a long list of items that, as far as I understand, were "good" or at least reasonable at inception but are now complete trash (yeti cloak for instance?).
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