Post by artemis99 on Jan 19, 2014 0:56:08 GMT
I really like the idea. Having both divine and arcane spell while being able to go into melee.
It was already brought up:
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/18567/urge-fight-27clr-11wiz-1mnk
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/16195/melee-theurge
With the first being my main inspiration.
I would love to hear some ideas for improvement and perhaps more importantly opinions on viability/whether it can contribute to a party in the end-game areas.
Race: Moon Elf
Stats at creation:
Str 8
Dex 16
Con 10
Wis 16
Int 16
Cha 8
After subrace modifiers:
Str 6
Dex 16
Con 10
Wis 16
Int 18
Cha 8
Progression:
Monk 1/Wizard 9/Cleric 10/Wizard 10/Cleric 10
It doesn't matter that much, but monk needs to be first and 9 levels of wizard and cleric need to be taken directly after.
All stat points into wisdom.
Feats:
1. Dauntless
3. Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
6. Ambidexterity
Wizard bonus. Spell Penetration
9. Intuitive Attack
12. Two-Weapon Fighting
15. Greater Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
18. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
21. Great Intellect I
Wizard bonus. Greater Spell Penetration
24. Great Wisdom I
27. Great Wisdom II
Wizard bonus. Epic Spell Penetration
30. Epic Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
33. Great Wisdom III
36. Great Wisdom IV
39. Great Wisdom V
42. Legendary Valor
45. Legendary Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
48. Legendary Spell Penetration
51. Great Wisdom VI
54. Great Wisdom VII
57. Great Wisdom VIII
Read Tome of Evocation
60. Legendary Spell Focus (Evocation)
After 21st level the order doesn't matter that much. Legendary Spell Focus (Evocation) should probably be moved earlier.
Stats at 60 with +14 gear:
Str: 20
Dex: 30
Con: 24
Wis: 58
Int: 32
Cha: 22
I need some recommendations regarding skills. Should tumble/discipline/parry be taken cross-class at legendary levels? For that reason I was considering adding another monk level at the end for the skill dump.
AB: 20 BaB (Divine Power) +10 Epic +12 LBaB +1 WF +1 GWF +2 EWF +2 LWF +24 Wisdom +20 magic (Tenser’s) -2 Two-Weapon Fighting -2 Flurry = +88 ... Craft Weapon should probably taken for +90
Currently it is not possible to flurry with nunchakus, so it will be +92 with an attack less. Even if flurry will be possible it can be switched off at foes with exceptionally high AC.
With Two-weapon fighting, flurry and bonus attacks from tenser's/divine power, the number of attacks should be sick. This in comparison with 4 weapon buffs available (Flame Weapon, Shock Weapon, Darkfire, Frost Weapon) should result in a DPS at least matching the dexers (correct me if I am wrong).
AC: 10 base +19 natural (Tenser’s) +20 armor (Abu) +16 deflection +20 dodge +24 monk wis +10 dex = 119 AC extremely low. I have problems with the skill points calculations but if it would be possible to take tumble cross-class for a +6 bonus and craft armor for +2, it would give 127 AC. Girding of the Faithful would than give 129 AC. Will 129 AC, 75% concealment from ethereal visage, 48/+14 soak and evasion be sufficient defenses to survive in melee?
Saves:
- Fort 12 base +10 epic +5 legendary +7 con +1 dauntless +5 legendary valor +20 items = +60
- Reflex 8 base +10 epic +5 legendary +10 dex +1 dauntless +5 legendary valor +20 items = +59
- Will 15 base +10 epic +5 legendary +24 wis +20 items = +74
Caster Level = 58
Spell Penetration = 66
Implode DC = 10 base +9 spell level +24 wis +8 LSF = 51 DC which is 3 less than max for open subrace. Will it kill anything? Or is the 3 DC change too drastic?
I completely lack experience to tell if this can actually work (do something not just be dragged through the runs). If everything was accepted (AB, defenses, saves (I read that's good enough), Spell Pen, Implode DC) this would be, in my opinion, extremely fun and versatile character.
Pros:
- 9th level wizard spells
- 9th level cleric spells
- can do damage in melee
- can do aoe damage from spells
- can do single target damage from spells
- can Implode things with lower saves
Cons:
- lowish AB
- extremely low con (is the game playable with such low con? there are no points to spare)
- DC lower 3 points than max for an open subrace not to mention BUR
- no epic spells
Change I considered:
- add a level of monk at level 40 at the cost of a cleric level; this would lower CL and Spell Pen but could save some precious skill points; my biggest concern is that a lot of spells scales with two CLs, so dropping it to 57 would be crossing anothe rline and reducing effectivness of certain buffs
Change I don't really want:
- taking 26 cleric levels at the cost of wizard levels; this allows to learn epic spells, but the build is so feat tight, that there is no chance it would learn more than one; this also gives some feats which is much more appealing; some part of me really wants to have 9th level arcane spells, there are a lot of awesome spells there
TL;DR version:
1. Can this work in end-game areas similarly well as other open subrace builds?
2. Do you have any ideas for improvements?
3. Any general thoughts?
I would be very grateful for any feedback.
It was already brought up:
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/18567/urge-fight-27clr-11wiz-1mnk
highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/16195/melee-theurge
With the first being my main inspiration.
I would love to hear some ideas for improvement and perhaps more importantly opinions on viability/whether it can contribute to a party in the end-game areas.
Race: Moon Elf
Stats at creation:
Str 8
Dex 16
Con 10
Wis 16
Int 16
Cha 8
After subrace modifiers:
Str 6
Dex 16
Con 10
Wis 16
Int 18
Cha 8
Progression:
Monk 1/Wizard 9/Cleric 10/Wizard 10/Cleric 10
It doesn't matter that much, but monk needs to be first and 9 levels of wizard and cleric need to be taken directly after.
All stat points into wisdom.
Feats:
1. Dauntless
3. Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
6. Ambidexterity
Wizard bonus. Spell Penetration
9. Intuitive Attack
12. Two-Weapon Fighting
15. Greater Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
18. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
21. Great Intellect I
Wizard bonus. Greater Spell Penetration
24. Great Wisdom I
27. Great Wisdom II
Wizard bonus. Epic Spell Penetration
30. Epic Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
33. Great Wisdom III
36. Great Wisdom IV
39. Great Wisdom V
42. Legendary Valor
45. Legendary Weapon Focus (Nunchaku)
48. Legendary Spell Penetration
51. Great Wisdom VI
54. Great Wisdom VII
57. Great Wisdom VIII
Read Tome of Evocation
60. Legendary Spell Focus (Evocation)
After 21st level the order doesn't matter that much. Legendary Spell Focus (Evocation) should probably be moved earlier.
Stats at 60 with +14 gear:
Str: 20
Dex: 30
Con: 24
Wis: 58
Int: 32
Cha: 22
I need some recommendations regarding skills. Should tumble/discipline/parry be taken cross-class at legendary levels? For that reason I was considering adding another monk level at the end for the skill dump.
AB: 20 BaB (Divine Power) +10 Epic +12 LBaB +1 WF +1 GWF +2 EWF +2 LWF +24 Wisdom +20 magic (Tenser’s) -2 Two-Weapon Fighting -2 Flurry = +88 ... Craft Weapon should probably taken for +90
Currently it is not possible to flurry with nunchakus, so it will be +92 with an attack less. Even if flurry will be possible it can be switched off at foes with exceptionally high AC.
With Two-weapon fighting, flurry and bonus attacks from tenser's/divine power, the number of attacks should be sick. This in comparison with 4 weapon buffs available (Flame Weapon, Shock Weapon, Darkfire, Frost Weapon) should result in a DPS at least matching the dexers (correct me if I am wrong).
AC: 10 base +19 natural (Tenser’s) +20 armor (Abu) +16 deflection +20 dodge +24 monk wis +10 dex = 119 AC extremely low. I have problems with the skill points calculations but if it would be possible to take tumble cross-class for a +6 bonus and craft armor for +2, it would give 127 AC. Girding of the Faithful would than give 129 AC. Will 129 AC, 75% concealment from ethereal visage, 48/+14 soak and evasion be sufficient defenses to survive in melee?
Saves:
- Fort 12 base +10 epic +5 legendary +7 con +1 dauntless +5 legendary valor +20 items = +60
- Reflex 8 base +10 epic +5 legendary +10 dex +1 dauntless +5 legendary valor +20 items = +59
- Will 15 base +10 epic +5 legendary +24 wis +20 items = +74
Caster Level = 58
Spell Penetration = 66
Implode DC = 10 base +9 spell level +24 wis +8 LSF = 51 DC which is 3 less than max for open subrace. Will it kill anything? Or is the 3 DC change too drastic?
I completely lack experience to tell if this can actually work (do something not just be dragged through the runs). If everything was accepted (AB, defenses, saves (I read that's good enough), Spell Pen, Implode DC) this would be, in my opinion, extremely fun and versatile character.
Pros:
- 9th level wizard spells
- 9th level cleric spells
- can do damage in melee
- can do aoe damage from spells
- can do single target damage from spells
- can Implode things with lower saves
Cons:
- lowish AB
- extremely low con (is the game playable with such low con? there are no points to spare)
- DC lower 3 points than max for an open subrace not to mention BUR
- no epic spells
Change I considered:
- add a level of monk at level 40 at the cost of a cleric level; this would lower CL and Spell Pen but could save some precious skill points; my biggest concern is that a lot of spells scales with two CLs, so dropping it to 57 would be crossing anothe rline and reducing effectivness of certain buffs
Change I don't really want:
- taking 26 cleric levels at the cost of wizard levels; this allows to learn epic spells, but the build is so feat tight, that there is no chance it would learn more than one; this also gives some feats which is much more appealing; some part of me really wants to have 9th level arcane spells, there are a lot of awesome spells there
TL;DR version:
1. Can this work in end-game areas similarly well as other open subrace builds?
2. Do you have any ideas for improvements?
3. Any general thoughts?
I would be very grateful for any feedback.